MTH PS-1 dilemma

[Taranwanderer]

So here's the situation: my PS-1 Dash-8 decided to stop working. I know that MTH stopped supporting PS-1 locos a while ago, and parts are scarce. So, if the board is fried (quite likely,) do I (a) fix it, with $$, (b) convert it to PS-2, with $$$, or (c) turn it into a dummy--for less $- and buy a new Williams engine that will be a better runner, which would be about the same $$ as option (a)? This MTH engine is my first foray into "modern" engines, and it's now been under the knife twice in the 4 years that I've owned it. Williams engines (so I've heard) are better runners, fewer features but less electronics to deal with. Thoughts?

[rtraincollector]

get with chief on this but option d is spend $ at electric railroad and convert it to TMCC. chief has done this to atleast 1 engine maybe 2

 

[dougdagrump]

Can you be a bit more specific.

Are you getting the "Three Clanks of Death" when you try to start-up?

Any sounds at all ? Could it be locked in neutral ? I have a Galloping Goose with PS-1 which, thanks to an over exhuberant museum guest, required the replacement of the motor board(?). All things considered to me it was still more economical to repair than to do a complete electronics change. Do you have a good local shop that can troubleshoot it and give an estimate?

[Taranwanderer]

When I turn on the power, all I get is a small, digital blip sound, then nothing. This engine already underwent the chip replacement and BCR install a few years back, and was working fine, until one day--blip, then nothing--no start up, no operation. The engine is currently at The Train Shoppe in Wilkes-Barre, they are a Lionel and MTH dealer, and seem to know what they're doing with each. It hasn't been torn apart yet, but when I described the symptoms to the owner, he seemed to think it's the board. Time will tell. Oh, and converting it to TMCC isn't really in my wheelhouse--I'm a conventional guy and really have no desire to move into the digital command era--if this is what's going to be involved, I'll stick with the older, simpler stuff.

[Taranwanderer]

I thought of an option (e) today: if it is the board (which, hey, what else fails on these engines,) then I'd figure that the motor is still working, and I always found the motor in this engine to be a strong runner. Does anyone see a way to rip out all the digital, circuit board hocus-pocus and just install a conventional (Lionel or otherwise) e-unit and just run this thing conventionally? I know that PS-1 locos had a lousy track record (now that's funny) and I can't be the only one who's had this idea. Anyone have any experience trying this? Thanks!

[lionelsoni]

I've done it, but right after buying the locomotives, not after they failed.  All you need is a bridge rectifier, to get DC from your AC, and the e-unit, to swap the polarity.

Connect the rectifier's ~ terminals to the wheels (frame) and to the pickup(s).  Connect the rectifier's + and - terminals to the frame and the red wire of the e-unit.  (You'll need to keep the e-unit frame and the locomotive frame insulated from each other.)  Connect the green e-unit wire to the e-unit frame.  Connect the blue and yellow wires to the motor(s).

If you can't find room for the e-unit upright, you can use the 671-50 or 726-51 e-unit that has a spring to return the plunger.  You can also put a spring inside a vertical unit without too much trouble.  Another possibility is to use an American Flyer reversing unit, which mounts horizontally.

It's also possible to wire it in a way that the e-unit frame doesn't need to be insulated; but then your e-unit will buzz just like everyone elses.

[willpick]

You can get an electronic E unit from dalee (http://www.dalee.com ) for 45$ + shipping. then a Sound Commander 2 from electric RR (www.electricrr.com) for $50 + shipping.  The sound commander will operate in conventional mode, has all necessary parts(speaker,etc.). Second option: buy an older Williams diesel and use the guts to replace the blown up PS-1 guts. this probably will cost more than the E unit & sound commander.

HTH---

[Taranwanderer]

Bob, thanks for the info. So, I take it you're telling me that the MTH motor is DC, not AC. One other question: in your description of how to wire the e-unit, are you going with a Lionel e-unit, and if so, from what era? Do you have a PN for that? If I use one of the other PNs you recommend, will they be wired the same (with regard to the colors?) Thanks for the technical support of my idea. I knew if anyone knew how to do this, it'd be you!

[lionelsoni]

I'm pretty sure that, if it's MTH, it has a DC can motor.

The e-units with the spring for horizontal mounting are the only substantially different type.  All the others differ in the length and shape of the on-off lever, or in whether they even have one.  I suspect that, in your case, you won't be able to locate that lever in a useful place anyway.  You can substitute an SPST switch wherever is handy.  In fact, your locomotive probably already has one somewhere that you can use.

If you get an old e-unit, it may not have the colored wires that I described.  In particular, it may have two yellow wires instead of a yellow and blue; but that doesn't matter at all.  If you get one with black wires or no wires, just holler and I'll try to identify the connections for you.

If your locomotive has two motors, you might want to consider wiring them in series, for better low-speed operation.  This may limit the top speed however.

[dougdagrump]

Would a Williams reverse unit be a viable option?

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=2765

[Andrew Falconer]

To get it running for the time being get the least expensive TrainMaster Command Control Board possible. 

 

Years in the Future you can upgrade it with a finally smaller, less expensive Proto-Sounds 3.0 or 4.0 or 5.0 board.

 

Andrew

[wallyworld]

 You might want to contact J&W electronics as they resolved a similar problem for me which turned out to be a defective connection to the motor lead..their prices were reasonable..they usually run an ad in CTT, there might not be a need to reinvent the wheel..at least it can be properly diagnosed and if possible, repaired. They also do conversions. I was very happy with their services.

[Taranwanderer]

Thanks for the reminder on J&W. This engine was already in their shop once for the chip replacement and BCR install. I too was happy with their services and wouldn't hesitate to use them again. The engine is at a dealer right now who does both MTH and Lionel, and if it is the board that's fried, I think I'll just buy a Lionel e-unit from the guy and convert it myself. But it's good to have J&W as a backup option. Thanks!

[Taranwanderer]

Well, it's official: the main board has gone down for the big dirt nap. So conversion to conventional control is the next step. Bob, the way you describe to wire the e-unit above routes the DC power through the e-unit, but isn't the e-unit designed to run on AC? Or doesn't it matter? I've already gutted the boards and unnecessary wiring out of the loco, and there's plenty of room in there for the necessary components. Right now, it's just a question of older, mechanical e-unit, or newer electronic one. I think either one will work (room-wise,) but if you can clarify about when to introduce the DC to the mix, that would be a big help. I just don't want to toast an e-unit with DC that was meant to run on AC. Thanks!

[lionelsoni]

Lionel trains ran on DC before they ran on AC.  The electromechanical e-unit will run just fine that way.  All my postwar locomotives plus two MTHs with a modification similar to what you're contemplating have their e-units on DC.  If you want, you can connect its coil upstream of the rectifier; but then it is surely going to buzz.

[Moozuki]

Go to electricrr, get the ac/dc commander for 69.95, a sound commander2 at 49.95. Install in loco and have fun again! Will run in conventional, and rectifies the ac for you.

[Taranwanderer]

Thanks for the suggestion, but it looks like the ac/dc commander is more than I need--I don't need the command control features. Now, Ma & Pa Junction has these reversing units: http://www.shop.mapajunction.com/product.sc?productId=3412&categoryId=187 and these sound boards: http://www.shop.mapajunction.com/product.sc?productId=3410&categoryId=187 Anyone have any experience with either of these units? Thanks!

[Taranwanderer]

IT'A ALIVE! Thanks to me finding the good folks of J&K Trains and Parts, Inc. at the Allentown show yesterday, the Dash-8 lives again. Those folks were very helpful and friendly, and it's nice to talk to people who know what you're trying to do because they've done it before. Anyway, thanks to everyone who offered suggestions--you all were WAY more helpful than both the MTH dealers I talked to. One Williams reverse board and True Blast sound board later, and once again she has F-N-R, horn, and bell. I even replaced the headlight with an LED. Seems like it runs faster without all that electronic stuff weighing it down! :) So again, thanks Bob, Wally, Will, Doug, Andrew and everyone else who guided me on this path of resurrection. Cheers!

[pete m penn]

rember ps1 is asound system not acomand system  they atcualy run conv.