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Are there advantages to running O27???

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Posted by servoguy on Monday, May 10, 2010 8:50 PM
Last night while I was testing the 1122 switches, I had a problem with an ALCO PA derailing every time it went through one of the switches. I changed the switch and had the same problem. I checked that everything on the loco was OK. The wheel flange on the front axle of the powered truck was climbing the rail just past the points. The loco was coming into the switch from the divergent path, and derailing just past the points. I oiled the inside of the rail and the problem was fixed. Anyone else had a problem like this? Bruce Baker
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Posted by servoguy on Monday, May 10, 2010 8:47 PM
I would strongly recommend that anyone that is using 1122 switches and installing them in a "permanent" layout take the bottom cover off and solder all the crimp connections. This includes the rivet in the center of the fat center rail. I am presently getting 9 of these switches to work, and so far two of them have had a bad connection. Both of them got hot enough that they melted the plastic, and I burned my finger on one of them. I was running a 1130 plastic engine and 8 post war cars which were well lubed. While I was debugging this problem, I measured the current and it was around 2.5 amps. A larger loco would draw more current and create proportionally more heat. Do what Bob Nelson suggests and remove the bottom cover and do it right. As far as having an indicator for the switch position on the control panel, IMHO, it is probably easier to put a micro switch (or some other position sensor) on the switch to give a positive indication of the switch position. From all the discussion, I think this would be the easiest solution. It would certainly be the best solution. One that you would be happy with for a long time. Bruce Baker
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Posted by Auggie Express on Monday, May 10, 2010 9:55 AM

Hello David,

Excellent layout, thanks for posting the pictures.

I really like the backdrop with the clouds, elevator and plane and would appreciate knowing the source as that is exactly what I am looking for.

Regards,

Dennis

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Posted by balidas on Sunday, May 9, 2010 6:29 PM

lionelsoni

It was made by K-Line.  I doubt that Lionel continued it.  You may find old stock in stores or used track for sale on Ebay.  The K-Line number for a box of 16 pieces (a complete circle) is K-0226.  It looks like these folks might have some:  http://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/4803

 

Thanx! I have the link saved. I'll look more into that. I never knew 0-27 would be in 072.

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Posted by wjstix on Sunday, May 9, 2010 5:26 PM

Depends on whether you mean O27 curves, or O27 type track. As noted, O27 track has smaller rail and ties and is easier to make look "realistic". You can get O27 type track in various curves, up to O72.

Stix
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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, May 9, 2010 5:10 PM

It was made by K-Line.  I doubt that Lionel continued it.  You may find old stock in stores or used track for sale on Ebay.  The K-Line number for a box of 16 pieces (a complete circle) is K-0226.  It looks like these folks might have some:  http://www.westerndepot.com/product_info.php/products_id/4803

Bob Nelson

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Posted by balidas on Sunday, May 9, 2010 4:54 PM

Where would one find 027 profile track in 72?

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, March 29, 2010 6:18 AM

O27-profile track comes in nominal diameters of 27, 34, 42, 54, and 72.  Turnouts are available in 27, 34, and 42 diameters.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Top "BIX" on Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:37 PM

Hi,  If you look around at meets sometimes you can find Lionel O27 track (curves) that have an 072 diameter circle when connected together (they have the brown ties also).  I have purchased them new also at a Hobby Shop. (There was a large box of them under a shelf way in the back).  I've also used Marx track which has a 031 diameter. I use it for the outside and 027 for the inside of a double track set-up.  I like it because it is not so high, only problem is a lack of wide diameter switches in O27. 

 

Good Luck,

                 Top BIX

"Tool use is a pretty good sign of intelligence"
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Posted by Ole Timer on Monday, March 1, 2010 9:19 AM

My only opinion is if you don't own any track yet and are going to buy ... why limit yourself to such small curves ?   My 2 cents  unless you are etremely cramped for space .

       LIFETIME MEMBER === DAV === DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS STEAM ENGINES RULE ++++ CAB FORWARDS and SHAYS
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Posted by stuartmit on Monday, March 1, 2010 8:28 AM

When I was running 027, I found that my 2343's would go through the 027 switch made prior to the non-derailing model 1122's. The housing was all at on end of the switch, before the loco body started to swing inside of the turn, as it does further throught the curve. The 1122's had a housing which ran a greater dimension into the turn, and would  not provide clearance; I believe the motor was a different mechanism and mounted with its major axis 90 dgrees to the major axis of the motor direction used in the switch model which preceded it and did not have the non derailing feature (I mention that feature purely to aid in identification of the switch).

A thought which occurs to me now is that I am not sure what would have happened if I had 2 rights or 2 lefts  installed so that a loco might go through the curved branches of both; there the housing of the first might not cause trouble but the housing of the second might; I never had that allignment, and I now use Ross or Gargraves where this is not a concern 

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Posted by alank on Saturday, February 6, 2010 12:05 PM

I run my 726 Berk using 0-27 track and switches with no problem.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Saturday, February 6, 2010 11:02 AM

O27 (12.5-inch radius) track, including the turnouts, will handle vertical-motor F3s.  The truck center bearings are closer together than on the horizontal-motor models.

A number of O31-only pieces can be modified, some surprisingly easily, to get through O27 turnouts.  I run a Train Master.  I don't have a Berkshire; but I do run a 773 Hudson and a Rail King Big Boy on O27.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by cbq9911a on Saturday, February 6, 2010 10:45 AM

cabooseboy

Can't decide whether to build a layout in O27 or O31.....i plan on running only post-war equipment...opinions please!!!    thanks.....

 

Stock 031 track will handle all postwar equipment.  Stock postwar 027 track won't handle big engines like F3s, Trainmasters, and Berkshires.

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Posted by jwse30 on Saturday, February 6, 2010 9:56 AM

lionelsoni

Marx made both O27 and O34.  Marx track pins are different, but the same diameter as and completely compatible with Lionel O27 track. 

 

Here's some Marx o34 and Lionel o27 track used together:


J White

 

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Posted by lionelsoni on Friday, February 5, 2010 4:05 PM

Lionel got their O27 track when they (and American Flyer) acquired Ives around 1930.  That's why they called their older O-gauge track, which nowadays gets called "O31" or "O30", simply "O" and gave a new name to O27.  They continued manufacturing the O27 track clips with the Ives name to protect the trademark.

Marx made both O27 and O34.  Marx track pins are different, but the same diameter as and completely compatible with Lionel O27 track.  K-Line made O27, O42, O54, and O72 in O27 profile.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by phillyreading on Friday, February 5, 2010 3:44 PM

The basic advantage of running 027 for me is size, because you can run a smaller track layout, and the weight is less than O gauge tubular like Lionel's 031. Those are a couple of reasons why I run 027 with Gargraves switches on my upper level.

You can use Lionel's CTC power lock-on for either 027 or O gauge track. 027 track has track clips to keep it together that go under the track just like O gauge tracks, but have a differant shape, also 027 track clips(if you use them) need to be installed before setting the track in place or as you go. Not sure but there may be some 027 track made by Ives Trains as well, at least some of the track clips I bought for 027 has Ives stamped on them.

Both Lionel and K-Line made 027 track, curves sizes 27 & 42 inch. Marx version of 027 track has 34 inch curves if I am correct, also the Marx track pins might be differant than Lionel.

Lee F.

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Posted by dsmith on Friday, February 5, 2010 10:55 AM

Taranwanderer
David: so in your application, the 153 pressure contactor (or your relay,) installed several sections in front of your isolated (from center rail power) block actually supplies power to your block when the "ahead" train is off it, but cuts power to the block when the "ahead" train is on it? I've done the opposite: used one train to supply power to a block (isolated with outer rail fiber pins,) but I've never used it to cut power to a block. Is my understanding right?

 

Yes, you are correct.

  David from Dearborn  

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Posted by cnw1995 on Friday, February 5, 2010 8:45 AM
I'm going to try David's article - I have an all-027 track layout - simply because that's what my starter set came with 10 years ago. I've kept it and just 'grew' it because 027 track was inexpensive and I never owned or ran equipment that required larger curves - though as Bob noted, larger radius 027 curves are certainly available.

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by Taranwanderer on Friday, February 5, 2010 8:19 AM
David: so in your application, the 153 pressure contactor (or your relay,) installed several sections in front of your isolated (from center rail power) block actually supplies power to your block when the "ahead" train is off it, but cuts power to the block when the "ahead" train is on it? I've done the opposite: used one train to supply power to a block (isolated with outer rail fiber pins,) but I've never used it to cut power to a block. Is my understanding right?
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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, February 4, 2010 10:18 PM

There's no need to adapt O27 to another track type.  Just plug in O34 curves, or whatever larger radius you like.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by Lionel 773 hudson on Thursday, February 4, 2010 9:39 PM
    Fast track and O-27 are good for post-war stuff, but it depends on what post-war stuff you will run. The larger steam locos and longer cars will have problems with O-27.  I'm using a hybrid of fast track and O-27, fast track for the curves and O-27 for long straight away.  I think you can make O-27 and O-31 work tougher similarly. (have not tried it)  But if you are on a budget O-27 is the way to go.
Speling? Optional. Ricky.L
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Posted by dsmith on Thursday, February 4, 2010 8:44 AM

Here is the basic circuit for operating 2 trains on 1 track.  Instead of the pressure switch I used an insulated outside rail that would close a relay.

 

  David from Dearborn  

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Posted by Taranwanderer on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 11:20 PM
Did you do this with some insulated track or what? Or did you use something like a 253 block signal with the thermometric strip to cut power, then restore it after a few seconds? But that would make both trains slow down at that same point, wouldn't it...You might have to expand on your description of your "simple automatic circuit" for me, if you get time. Thanks!
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Posted by dsmith on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 8:13 PM

RockIsland52

Hi Dave,

You had a separate video on the extension but I can't find it. Sad

Here's the video on my 2' x 5' extention that houses my homemade transfer table with sidings that can hold 10 engines.  The October 2009 issue of CTT magazine has a step by step article on how I made the transfer table.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=est5JftaW4I

  David from Dearborn  

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Posted by servoguy on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 8:12 PM

 I think the O-31 track predates the O-27 track by several years. 

I run O-31 and 022 switches.  I think the 022 switches are first class as the trains seem to like them better than the O-27 switches.  I also like the constant voltage plug for the 022 switches, although Bob Nelson has explained how to modify the O-27 switches with a constant voltage plug.  

O-31 track and 022 switches have become very cheap.  O-27 track and switches are even cheaper.  I like to buy things cheap and make them work again.  A week ago, I bought 2 boxes of track and switches (mostly O-27 track and O-31 switches), 8 cars including a whistle tender with a broken shell, and 3 transformers (two 1034s and one Type A) for $60.  I will use the O-27 track, the cars and the transformers to make up train sets for some young boys.   The transformers needed new power cords and a little lube, the cars are somewhat rusty, and the track may need a little work, but it's all fun.

Bruce Baker

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Posted by dsmith on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 8:04 PM

Taranwanderer
Nice video! Question: are you making the AA MP diesels slow down manually as they come in front of the control panel, or do you have some sort of mechanism doing it? I take it the AA set is faster than the Great Lakes Passenger set, and you have to keep slowing it down to keep it from catching up to the GL set. Just curious.

Since I am running 2 trains on each loop I am using a simple automatic circuit that momentarily stops the faster train if it gets too close to the slower train.

  David from Dearborn  

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Posted by arkady on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 5:34 PM
I never really understood the rationale for Lionel's O31 track. More expensive, way too high (for my taste, at least) and only a couple inches greater radius.

That's the reason I like FasTrack. It's about as realistic as you can expect 3-rail track to be, and you get nice wide O36 curves -- or even wider, if you've got the room.

I only run postwar equipment, just like you. And it's always happy on the FasTrack. But some of my prewar Lionel doesn't like the FasTrack switches, so I'll always keep some 027 handy for the prewar locomotives.

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Posted by fredswain on Tuesday, February 2, 2010 5:27 PM

When it comes to tubular track I like O-27 personally. Search for my hand laid O-27 thread. Your patience and time can make it look quite nice. Although I don't show it in my thread, after painting the rails and ballasting, the track really looks much smaller than it does as it comes. It's also cheap and plentiful and if you are creative you can bend it to any radius you need. I'm still working on custom built turnout for O-27.

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