Manufacturer Compatibility? What Works With What?

[Bill54]

I'm new to the world of "O" scale coming from HO. 

A little more than a year ago I bought a Lionel Steam Train Set that came with the Fastrack system and a CW 80 Transformer.  I had planned on expanding the set so I bought more Fasstrack and a ZW Powerhouse Power Supply to be able to run serveral trains.

I want to purchase the new trains now and have selected Williams Diesel Engines and a variety of rolling stock that consist of MTH, Atlas "O", Williams and Weaver products. 

All are 3 rail cars however, will the couplers work with each other or will I experience problems trying to get them to work together?  Or is there other problems I may run into?

I appreciate any information you have.

Thanks,

Bill

[Anonymous]

First off to the Forum!

Second - you should be OK with the rolling stock and any engines you want to run in conventional mode. If you get into TMCC/Legacy (Lionel) or DCS (MTH) engines you can not control all the DCS functions from within TMCC or Legacy, but you can control TMCC engine functionality from within DCS, but not all Legacy features will function properly. I hope this wasn't too confusing.

[dwiemer]

Most things in 3-rail O-gauge will work together without issue, save for the control systems Brent mentioned above.  Two more things you will want to be aware of is turn radius and coupler type.  Some of the scale items from Atlas and Weaver may have prototypical couplers that don't work well with knuckle couplers that most others use.  If you really like a piece, these can usaully be changed out.  With regard to radius, most pieces will give a minimum ie: minimum 036 or 048.  They usually show this in the catalog.  You will want to make sure that whatever you purchase can operate on your minimum curve track on the layout.

Dennis

[phillyreading]

Bill,

There are a few things that may not work well together, the biggest item I can think of off-hand is MTH PS-2(proto sound) engines and Lionel's CW-80 transformer, the CW-80 don't work with MTH's new engines. Also not all track will match up with each other, like is it Atlas solid rail or Lionel's Fastrac or MTH's Realtrax or Gargraves three rail? Most items will work on any track system with very few exceptions, so not much worry about track except for radius.

I run Lionel, MTH, Atlas and Williams together in regular O gauge setting. I am not into "scale" as that is mainly two rail in O gauge and DC powered transformers. Regular O gauge is mainly AC powered transformers and accessories.

The main thing to watch out for is; is it scale or regular O gauge? The two don't mate with couplers, scale couplers are smaller than O gauge like Lionel, MTH and Williams. Knowing about H.O. that would be like mixing Kadee couplers with horn & hook couplers.

The only real compatibilty issues that I have had was with Weaver and Lionel style couplers. I could not keep the Weaver frieght cars on the track when I mixed them with Lionel or MTH.

One thing that I recommend is to use a transformer to power any lights on the layout and not 120 volts directly from an outlet, like Christmas tree lights-keep them off the layout unless powered by a transformer. Because I live in southeast Florida I highly recommend power surge protection for your transformers or other stuff that uses 120 volts.

Lee F.

[Bill54]

I appreciate all the information from everyone.  I didn't know that the scale cars had different couplers than the standard O cars.  They looked different from the pictures but I couldn't get a clear picture of how they looked.

So as long as I keep the scale cars and standard O cars separated I should be ok as far as couplers goes. 

As for loco's I'm looking at a couple Williams engines so I shouldn't have any problems running them on the CW 80 or the ZW.

Thanks, Bill

[dougdagrump]

Bill54

I appreciate all the information from everyone.  I didn't know that the scale cars had different couplers than the standard O cars.  They looked different from the pictures but I couldn't get a clear picture of how they looked.

So as long as I keep the scale cars and standard O cars separated I should be ok as far as couplers goes. 

As for loco's I'm looking at a couple Williams engines so I shouldn't have any problems running them on the CW 80 or the ZW.

Thanks, Bill

Welcome Bill.

Almost all of the 3rail will work together whether it be scale, semi-scale or the "entry level" rolling stock. Normally they all come with the "oversized" knuckle coupler, some will come with a scale coupler or KD adapters in the box for the buyer to use if they wish. Sometimes you will come across couplers, plastic or die cast, that maybe the molds were showing some wear or just not good to begin with that will cause aggravation but can be corrected.

You can run anything together that is appealing to your eye, just do some mixing & matching. For example if you put a standard "O" next to the entry level you'll see a significant difference, however if you were to put maybe a semi-scale between them the size difference isn't quite so stark.

Another very good rule of thumb is to set-up not only by size but also by weight, heaviest cars close to the loco and lightest cars by the caboose. This will help to reduce the risk of "stringlining" on smaller diameter curves.

Enjoy & have fun !

[dwiemer]

Bill, one last thing to mention.  Some early locomotives had their drive wheel gears that extended all the way to the ends of the wheel flanges.  These will work on the straights and curved tracks, but will derail going over turnouts (Switches).  If you find a old engine that you want to add to your collection, just keep that in mind.

Dennis

[wjstix]

In Lionel terms, "Standard O" means "scale size" and "Traditional O" means the smaller stuff, either O-27 or "semi-scale". All come with the standard Lionel knuckle coupler, and almost any three-rail car or engine you get is going to have Lionel or Lionel-compatible couplers. I don't have experience with them, but apparently the Atlas O cars come with a Lionel-type coupler that doesn't mate that well with other Lionel-type couplers, I think that's what someone was referring to re coupler "issues". (I'm sure someone can provide more detail on that.)

Also, just like pretty much any HO engine you buy will run on DC, pretty much any 3-rail engine you get will run on AC, and the bell and whistle/horn buttons should work on engines that have those, or that have sophisticated sounds sytems. As in HO, you need to go to command control to access all the sound and control engines of many newer engines.

For years in HO all the various DCC systems were compatible, so you could use an NCE system to run an engine with a Digitrax decoder or vice versa. But in recent years MTH's DCS system has come along, which isn't fully compatible with "regular" DCC. It's similar in three-rail, except there are basically only two systems: Lionel TMCC (which it leases to several other manufacturers) and MTH's DCS...which isn't fully compatible with TMCC stuff.

Bill54

As for loco's I'm looking at a couple Williams engines so I shouldn't have any problems running them on the CW 80 or the ZW.

Yes, Williams stuff should work fine, in fact many Williams engines are licensed reproductions of Lionel classics like the Hudson, Berkshire etc.

[phillyreading]

Williams engines work very good with MTH's Z-1000 and the post war ZW 275 watt version. As for running them with a Lionel CW-80; it should have enought power, unless you have six passenger cars with two or more lights in each car.

I have heard that the "new Williams" by Bachmann steam engines need a 100 watt transformer or larger to prevent overheating of the motor. The motor inside must take a lot of power to keep running, I was over at the Bachmann website and some people were saying that the new Williams engines draw a lot of power.

Lee F.

[lionelsoni]

I don't see how a transformer with a higher power rating can prevent motor overheating.  If the transformer can put out the voltage to run the train at the speed you want, without tripping its overcurrent protection, the motor will perform just as it would with any larger transformer.