Trains.com

Williams Amtrak Train Scale Question

12100 views
17 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Williams Amtrak Train Scale Question
Posted by SleeperN06 on Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:54 PM

I just got my Williams Amtrak running and I noticed that the passenger cars appear small compared to the engine. I have a #GEN805 & #GEN810 Engine with four #AF100 Couches. Is that the correct combination as far as scale goes?  

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Saturday, January 23, 2010 4:27 PM

One other question. Can anybody direct me to an instruction manual? The sound effects are really loud and I was wondering if it had volume control.  Also, I’m using my Lionel CW80 transformer to power it and both the horn and the bell operate from the CW80 whistle button. It took a while to figure out and I’m not sure if it is correct, but when I just touch the whistle button the bell starts and does not stop until I touch the button again. If I hold the whistle button down then the horn sounds.

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Plymouth, MI
  • 1,615 posts
Posted by chuck on Saturday, January 23, 2010 5:40 PM
The bell button usually is a toggle, aka you hit once to turn on, a second time to turn off. The horn/whistle is often handled differently. On many engines, you hit the whistle/horn and it will only sound while the button is pressed. NOTE: True Blast 2 is an exception, it will fire a pre-programmed set of sounds (the horn/whistle pattern for a grade crossing). Scale modern coaches would be 21" long (aka 85 feet for the prototype). Most "scale" three rail passenger coaches are 18" long, (aka 72 feet) because you need extremely large diameter curves to handle 21".
When everything else fails, play dead
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:02 PM

Thanks Chuck.

This is the first time I ever had a train like this. At first I thought the horn was broken because all I could get was the bell and it was not working with the bell button on the CW80. It wasn’t until my daughter started pressing buttons to calm my grandson who was getting upset that it wasn’t working like the Lionel. I still don’t understand why only the one button on the CW80 works.

I still need to figure out how to cut down on the volume. I might have to do like I’ve done on the kid’s toys, that is DUCT TAPE IT.

 

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Saturday, January 23, 2010 10:39 PM

I don’t think I can stand that the couches are a different scale than the engine. I either have to sell one or the other so that they match. If I can’t have a matching set then they all got to go.

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Southington, CT
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by DMUinCT on Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:35 AM

SleeperN06
I just got my Williams Amtrak running and I noticed that the passenger cars appear small compared to the engine. I have a #GEN805 & #GEN810 Engine with four #AF100 Couches. Is that the correct combination as far as scale goes?  

1. You talk about "Williams" Amtrak trains running with Lionel Track and Transformer ?  The numbers don't line up so we will talk in general terms.  Most Lionel track is made in a 27", 32" or 36" circle.  If you want to run "long" cars or build a large model railroad you will need curves that make a 48",60", 72", or 84" circle.  The Williams Genesis locomotive is aprox. Scale Size, the Williams passenger cars are about scale height but short in length (15"). Both engine and cars will run on a 31" circle of track.  Longer, scale length, passengercars will require a 42" circle of track.

2. Yes, the Amtrak Genesis Locomotives are much bigger than the Amfleet Cars they pull.  Photo of the real thing below, Amtrak "Three Rivers" eastbound into Harrisburg PA.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Sunday, January 24, 2010 1:09 PM

DMUinCT

[2. Yes, the Amtrak Genesis Locomotives are much bigger than the Amfleet Cars they pull.  Photo of the real thing below, Amtrak "Three Rivers" eastbound into Harrisburg PA.

Ok, now that makes me feel better. I think I’ll print that picture and hang it next to my layout, so if anybody questions it, I’ll show them the photo. I do have 42” dia. Curves, but it was the height that was bothering me. It just didn’t look like it fit and I can live with length.

I was starting worry about trying to sell it like that, but the photo looks pretty much like what I got. Thanks Don, I guess I’ll keep it.

 

 

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    November 2006
  • From: Southington, CT
  • 1,326 posts
Posted by DMUinCT on Monday, January 25, 2010 8:32 AM

Northeast Regional (Boston Washington), Electric Locomotive with Amfleet Cars and Amtrak Acela bullet trains, even smaller.   Both photos taken in Boston's South Station.

Don U. TCA 73-5735

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Lake Worth FL
  • 4,014 posts
Posted by phillyreading on Monday, January 25, 2010 11:39 AM

If you are having a problem with the bell and horn features try to swap the wires from the two transformer posts to the track and that should help. The True Blast 2 horn sounds a sequence for a grade crossing; two long, one short, one long. The bell feature needs to have the bell button pressed for about three seconds to activate(turn on) and again for three seconds to turn off.

Depending on when the Williams engine was made, if it is Williams only(before Bachmann) the volume can be adjusted by taking the shell off the engine and looking for a miniture volume switch on the circuit board and turning it one way or the other. If it is a Williams by Bachmann you need to consult Bachmann for instructions on how to adjust the volume switch if it can be done, maybe you can not adjust the volume on a Bachmann.

I have several Williams before Bachmann take-over and that is why I know how to adjust the Williams only engines. I have even disabled a couple of reversing units by putting in bridge rectifiers, you lose direction control by doing this, forward only or reverse only!

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Monday, January 25, 2010 6:02 PM

I remembered reading a post once before about swapping wires, so I did that but nothing changed. I don’t know if I have an equipment problem or if I just don’t understand how it works. I wasn’t sure if maybe it was the Lionel CW80 transformer or maybe I needed some special controller or something. I’m pretty sure that it is an original Williams train by the model numbers. They are not typical Bachman numbers.

Now that I’m over the engine size, I really like it. Besides the sound issue I’m still trying to figure out the couplers. There is a spring lever that I guess works the knuckle that pops out and the coupler doesn’t work. At first I thought it was broken and then after some fiddling it popped back in. I haven’t tried an Uncoupling Track yet and I don’t really expect to be uncoupling very much, but it is hard to manually uncouple.  

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Lake Worth FL
  • 4,014 posts
Posted by phillyreading on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 12:00 PM

If it is original Williams you can adjust the volume of the horn/whistle by adjusting a small volume screw on the circuit board. Do you know what the circuit board looks like and does it have a number on it anywhere? Williams has used about five differant versions of circuit boards, even had a board from QSI at one time in some of their diesel engine A-B-A sets.

About the Williams couplers, they are tricky to get to work properly, the ones one the GP-9's will open and then need to be re-aligned to close, sometimes the small bar underneath don't stay in place after it opens. The spring may need some more tension on it or try putting the spring under the metal  release bar.  I have a Williams diesel engine B unit that I finally just put black nylon tie-wraps around the lever that lets it uncouple and it stays in place, closed.

Now if the CW-80 don't work the horn unit properly you may have a bad CW-80 transformer. There have been three seperate runs of the CW-80 transformer and sad to say the first run had a lot of DUDS!! Try using another transformer as your transformer may be bad, usually switching wires helps the horn/whistle issue.

I have a post war ZW 275 watt version and a post war KW 190 watt version and an MTH Z-1000, 100 watt transformer and my Williams engines work great these transformers. One thing I have found out about the new Williams by Bachmann, make sure you have a powerful transformer(90 watt or better) as this keeps the engines from overheating.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:06 PM

phillyreading

If it is original Williams you can adjust the volume of the horn/whistle by adjusting a small volume screw on the circuit board. Do you know what the circuit board looks like and does it have a number on it anywhere? Williams has used about five differant versions of circuit boards, even had a board from QSI at one time in some of their diesel engine A-B-A sets.

Lee F.

I do not know how to open it up. Do I remove the screws shown in the corner?  It appears the screws are not connected to the shell.

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Lake Worth FL
  • 4,014 posts
Posted by phillyreading on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:53 AM

The four screws, one in each corner, need to be removed and the shell comes off. Then you look inside for the circuit board, looks like several electronic parts on a small board, there should be a silver looking thing with an adjustable screw inside it, may look like it has an opening of one/eigth of an inch slot in it, you adjust it with a flat-tip screwdriver. One way will lessen or quiet the sound, the other will increase the sound unless it is fully open for volume adjustment. If it has a QSI label on it you can still adjust the volume.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:00 PM

Thanks Lee, I figured out why I couldn’t get it apart. It had 6 screws and two looked like they were holding on the board.

After I got it apart I found two adjustable pots. I don’t know what they control, so I guess I got to just play with it by adjusting each one until I know what they do. I’m assuming one must be the bell and the other sound effects.

The powered Loco says it has a horn printed on the box. This one shown in the photo doesn’t say anything except that it’s a dummy.

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Williams’s electronics
Posted by SleeperN06 on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:40 PM

There sure is a lot of electronics on this board. I can’t hardly believe that there isn’t more sounds in this.

 

Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Lake Worth FL
  • 4,014 posts
Posted by phillyreading on Thursday, January 28, 2010 1:30 PM

Johh,

Adjust the one that is closest to the speaker wire attachment as this should be the one for the sound system. The one marked with 1 in the photo looks like it is near the motor control diodes, the one with number 2 looks like it should control the volume.

Side note, I am waiting for the Williams Plasticville tank car by Bachmann to arrive.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: High Desert of Southern Calif.
  • 637 posts
Posted by SleeperN06 on Friday, January 29, 2010 2:46 AM
phillyreading

Johh,

Adjust the one that is closest to the speaker wire attachment as this should be the one for the sound system. The one marked with 1 in the photo looks like it is near the motor control diodes, the one with number 2 looks like it should control the volume.

Side note, I am waiting for the Williams Plasticville tank car by Bachmann to arrive.

Lee F.

 

Ok, that was the one and I have it adjusted all way down, so if it gets any louder it will be time for cotton balls and duct tape. Smile,Wink, & Grin So anyways thanks Lee for your help, It works fine now. I had to work two double shifts in a row with only 4 hours sleep in between and I was too tired to fool around with it, but it wasn’t so bad after you told me which one to adjust.

I was searching for a photo of the “the Williams Plasticville tank car” to see what it looked like, but could only find Williams Dome Cars or Plasticville Buildings.  Do you have a link to a photo of what your waiting for?

 Well now I got to goto sleep, before I fall over.Zzz
Thanks, JohnnyB
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Lake Worth FL
  • 4,014 posts
Posted by phillyreading on Friday, January 29, 2010 12:26 PM

John,

The Williams Plasticville tank car, I forgot to mention this but it is the Platinum Club car for 2009. Go to www.bachmanntrains.com then click on USA, then click on Williams. The car costs about $35.00 and you get a Williams catalog in the mail also. Expected new delivery date according to Bachmann is 'spring of 2010.' So far the delivery date has been pushed back one time from fall of 2009.

If you like you can join the Bachmann discussion board, almost like the forum on here.

Lee F.

Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading.

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

FREE EMAIL NEWSLETTER

Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month