Im just not happy with the aftermarket brushes. The performance drop is too much and motors get MUCH hotter. Any idea where I can source the copper colored lionel brushes used on postwar motors?
try jeff at the train tender jeff@ttender.com
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
I bought his aftermarket brushes. He did not have any originals.
Try Mike's trains & hobbies at mike@mikestrainsandhobbies.com
I don't know if he has them, but he has a huge stock of parts.
Bruce Baker
If it's any help to anyone searching for a substitute (I haven't found any), Lionel brushes appear to be very close to 4.5 millimeters in diameter. I think the material might be copper-graphite.
Bob Nelson
Bob,
Have you too noticed the motor performance drop as well using aftermarkets or is it just me? Coupled with the lackluster performance, I also get increased motor temps. Swap the originals back in and the problem is solved, however the originals are quite worn and may only last 2 more years.
So far, I have gotten by with old brushes salvaged from junkers; but I don't think I have any more of those.
Wonder of the brush tubes are slightly obstructed with gunk, allowing the worn sides of the old brushes to move freely but not newer ones. New brush springs might mitigate? Cleaning of the brush tubes? Both?
The heat and poor performance tells me the contoured brush heads of the new brushes are not sitting on the commutator very well with some arcing going on.. When I have swapped out old brushes as a precautionary move on my ancient stuff I never had your problem.
As an old slot car guy, we used to bench run motors after swapping out brushes to seat the new ones. But what do I know. With the slot cars, the filth from the track permeated everything. In addition to accumulated rubber from the tires, folks would spill stuff on the track, from lubricants to tire grip products to soda to cigarette ashes. And the proprietors of the track were a little slow on the uptake to perform a track cleaning. So it was necessary to frequently clean every nook and cranny in the motors and bearings..
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Jack,
I use a spray called QD Electronic Cleaner and it removes all oil and gunk like carb cleaner does excpet without destroying plastics. I did take a screw and rubbed it back and forth in the brush tubes just to remove any corrosion, but I did not see any.
I am going off and old school priciple, copper conducts FAR better than carbon/graphite. Thus the more copper in the brush formula, the less resistance and better current flow. People knock the original brushes harming the commutators, I dont; see this any more than with power tools using graphite brushes.
But its a shame I can;t find originals. With pinaballs, cars, atv;s (my other hobbies) you can always find original if you want to pay. I cant even find anyone they has them at all.
Fordiesel,
I've never been able to locate any NOS original brushes either. I've never had any issues with repro brushes. When you noticed that the motor ran hotter with repro brushes, were you originals the same length? If they were shorter, they will exert less pressure against commutator, and the motor will run cooler as a result of the reduced load as opposed to running with longer brushes. I like what you said above about the internal resistance of the brushes as that is also a factor here.
Regarding the theory about original brushes harming the commutator, I got the impression that it was due to the high copper content. If that is the case, then that theory about wear between two metal parts that are made of the same metal likely comes into play. I can't say for certain one way or the other, but I feel safer using softer brushes. After seeing what happened to the commutator in my 681 that had original brushes in it, I replace originals with repros whenever I do an overhaul. Maybe the wear was caused by some other factor. I haven't seen any other cases like that, so I am hesistant to make any assumptions.
Jim,
My originals are shorter than the new ones, however the spring pressure feels good, probably weaker than if they were new, but I would say the right amount of pressure. When I install my new brushes I prop up the trucks, clip my transformer wires on and let it run in for a bit to seat the brushes before I put it on the track. It does take a short bit for the entire surface to make contact.
In terms of the wear issues, not talking about lionel or trains, all commutaters wear, usually high starting loads contribute the most wear. In generators or car starter the brush material has virtually no copper in its composition, and yet plenty of wear still takes place. On my MPC era GP-9, the copper flakes inside the shell are spread thoughout. Putting graphite brushes in makes a finer more dirty dust.
I am trying to find a higher quality DVOM to test the resistance of the brushes, but my meter is not that great so it just shows continuity.
Does anyone have a guess about the reason for the strange .178-inch diameter that Lionel used? It doesn't correspond to any simple fraction of an inch. It's very close to 4.5 millimeters, as I mentioned above, but off by .001. I imagine that early-twentieth-century Lionel wouldn't have considered a round metric number in any case.
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