Can you be more specific?...;-)
Bob Nelson
Clearly the whatch-a-macallet is stuck in the doom-a-flotchy. Just relieve the pressure on the thingy-ma-gig and all will be well
TCA#09-63805
Oops!
Anyway. I have a very nice postwar, late '50s Lionel LV hopper (grey, as it were) which consistantly derails on some of my 031 curves. The rest of my similarly vintaged stock runs fine. If I remove the car, everything runs fine; if I add the car (at the end, or anywhere else, facing either way) it will derail (always same truck, if not right away, then after several laps.
I've tried slightly bending the ladders, as they seemed to sometimes contact the wheels, but to no avail. If I remember the classifications correctly, these are bar end trucks.
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks,
runtime
Out of gauge?
You could have a bent axle, or the entire truck can bent or twisted.
As Bob was eluding to, take a measurement of your wheel sets from flange to flange. You will more likely find that they are narrowed. As also mentioned, spin the wheel sets to make sure you don't have a bent axle. since you say that it touches the ladder, match up the truck to make sure it is not a replacement. It may need a washer as a spacer to make the car body sit a little higher on the truck.
Dennis
dwiemer You will more likely find that they are narrowed. As also mentioned, spin the wheel sets to make sure you don't have a bent axle
The original poster indicated that he has a postwar hopper. I guess I am not quite sure how these wheel sets would go out of gauge, since it's a swedge on the axle that keeps them apart. Spinning the wheels usually will not reveal a bent axle. The wheels are not attached to the axle, the axle usually will not spin with the wheel, and the wheels will not wobble. It takes a visual inspection. If the bend is bad, the wheels will look out of line. Sometimes, the bent axle will not be apparent unless the wheels and axles (along with the coupler plate) are removed from the truck.
Runtime, does this car have the style of coupler with the metal thumb tab sticking off to the side of the coupler? If so, this might be the trouble. It's possible if this is bent upward, that when the trucks go around a curve, it is hitting or engaging the other truck coupler, causing the derailment. With a pair of needle nose pliers, try giving the tab a bend downward and this should solve the problem. This happened to me once and it took me a while to figure this was the problem.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
The upsets on the axle can wear into the back of the wheel, narrowing the gauge. One experiment you can do is to swap all the wheels and axles with another similar car, to see whether the fault stays with the car or with the wheels.
I have had a few cars that liked to climb the frog of the 022 switches. What was wrong was that the sides of the truck were too far apart and the wheels could get far enough apart that the guard rail was not keeping the other wheel from climbing the frog. I now check all of my cars to make sure the trucks are not bent. You can check the axle end play by squeezing the two wheel together so that they lock onto the axle, and then moving them side to side to see if the axle has any end play. The axle should not have any end play. If it does, bend the sides of the truck toward the middle of the truck until the end play is gone. You may want to protect the truck with a piece of cardboard when you bend the truck.
lionelsoniThe upsets on the axle can wear into the back of the wheel, narrowing the gauge. One experiment you can do is to swap all the wheels and axles with another similar car, to see whether the fault stays with the car or with the wheels.
Interesting theory. Have you ever seen a case where this has happened?
Yes. I searched through my records and found instances on a 2426W tender, the pilot trucks of a GG1, a 2460 crane, and, interestingly, two Lehigh Valley hopper cars, where I added washers behind one or more of the wheels to correct the problem. A number-2 screw has a diameter of .086 inches, whereas a postwar axle is .094 inches. The number-2 washers I use have an inside diameter of .100 inches and are a good fit.
lionelsoniYes. I searched through my records and found instances on a 2426W tender, the pilot trucks of a GG1, a 2460 crane, and, interestingly, two Lehigh Valley hopper cars, where I added washers behind one or more of the wheels to correct the problem. A number-2 screw has a diameter of .086 inches, whereas a postwar axle is .094 inches. The number-2 washers I use have an inside diameter of .100 inches and are a good fit.
Interesting. I've put washers behind drive wheels to keep them from rubbing on the frame / chassis, but I haven't run into problems with plain old rolling stock. This is a tip I am going to have to remember !
Thank you all for your interest in my derailment problem with the LV Hopper.
Some additional info:
- I've had the car since new (could have been part of my Lackawana Set), so I believe these are the original trucks.
- I don't think any of the axles are bent, but I may remove the trucks (again- I did so this summer for cleaning) to make sure.
- I don't see any wear into the back of the wheels, but maybe such wear isn't all that obvious?
- Upon re-examination, I notice that the side bolsters on one of the trucks are looser (side to side) that on the other truck, and the coupler plate is also looser (no, there are no 'tabs' to facilitate coupler opening - this is earlier product)
So to verify the earlier problem (derailing on the exit of turnouts, both right and left) I put the car back on the end of the same 8 car train as before --- and it ran flawlessly for the entire test (about ten laps). I marked one truck, (the 'loose' one, which was forward), but haven't yet had time to test it running reversed.
What to conclude? (besides that this hobby takes time in so many ways).
ps - I do also have problems with leading truck derailment on an early GG1. Would the washer solution be applicable?
Thanks as always,
If the gauge is too narrow, the washer(s) can correct that.
If you have removed the wheels from the trucks, you definitely need to check the end play of the axles. The last time I did this I had to bend the sides of the trucks to remove the end play. If there is any significant amount of end play, the wheels will definitely climb up the frog of a switch.
Bruce Baker
It's unclear to me whether the original poster meant that the wheels /axles / coupler plate will slide from side to side, or that the bolsters will wiggle on the bolster..But in truth, it probably does not matter, the truck bolster is probably bent, causing the derailments. I believe the poster has already indicated that the axles are not bent.,
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month