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Multiple CTC Lockon clips w/ 1 transformer

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Multiple CTC Lockon clips w/ 1 transformer
Posted by jwilharm on Sunday, January 3, 2010 3:37 PM

Is it okay to have multiple CTC Lockon clips affixed to the track and attached to a single transformer?  If the answer is yes, will the track have more power with multiple CTC Lockon clips affixed and attached to the same transformer?

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Posted by TRAINCAT on Sunday, January 3, 2010 3:50 PM

Multiple lockon's with the same transformer are acceptable and a great idea. You should have no dead spots or slowing of trains when they are spaced out. This is the correct way to do it.

Roger

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Posted by 8ntruck on Sunday, January 3, 2010 4:22 PM

Mutiple CTC lockons will reduce or eliminate the voltage drop in the track due primarilarly to resistance in the track joints.

Just make sure when you hook them up that the center rail on both lockons is connected to the same post on the transformer - if they are not, you will short out the transformer and trip its circuit breaker.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, January 3, 2010 5:36 PM

You should be sure to use wire heavy enough for all that your transformer can supply.  That's 14 AWG for a (15-ampere) Z or ZW, 18 AWG for a (10-ampere) KW, 22 AWG for a (5-ampere) 1033, for example.  However, your wire should also be heavy enough that it is better than the track that it is supplementing, which generally means that you should be using 16 AWG or heavier.

Wire this heavy is difficult if not impossible to get into the Fahnestock clips on a lockon, especially if you are chaining the wiring from lockon to lockon, which is electrically a perfectly reasonable method.  Instead, I recommend splicing a couple of inches of the heaviest wire that you can fit into the lockon to the two ends of the heavier wire (one in the direction of the transformer, one on to the next lockon).  Wire nuts are handy for this.  Keep that wire as short as possible, and you won't have any trouble.

Another trick is to connect your feeder wires in a complete loop whenever possible, and to connect like feeders from track to track when convenient.  Even if the center rails are different circuits, the outside rails are probably common and can be connected together between tracks.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by sir james I on Sunday, January 3, 2010 9:19 PM

Unless you have a HUGE layout 14 ga. wire is overkill IMO. 16 or 18 will be just fine on most layouts. As stated above more lockons will even the voltage around the loop.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, January 3, 2010 9:40 PM

For safety's sake, the wire gauge has nothing to do with the layout size and everything to do with the transformer's circuit-breaker setting.  He didn't say what transformer he has; so I gave him a few examples, including the largest ones, which are a fire-safety hazard with smaller than 14 AWG.

Fifteen amperes is a typical branch-circuit rating in building wiring.  A circuit with a 15-ampere circuit breaker or fuse is required to be wired with 14 AWG, the smallest wire considered safe to carry 15 amperes.  Even if you have a one-room shack with a single circuit, you must use 14 AWG.  That shack (or small layout) will catch fire as easily as a mansion (HUGE layout) if undersized wiring tries to carry more than the 15 amperes that the circuit breaker will let pass.

As for voltage drop, CTT ran an article some time back comparing resistivity of various popular types of track.  This sort of thing can vary considerably depending on the quality of the track joints; but, with reasonably tight joints, all the track varieties seemed to cluster around the equivalent of 16 AWG.  Your milage may vary; but, if a layout is large enough that extra feeders can make a difference, then it is likely that those feeders would have to be as heavy as or heavier than the track itself to be worth installing.  That is why I recommend 16 AWG or heavier for feeders.  It's not a hard-and-fast rule; and, if 18 AWG works for a particular layout, that's just dandy.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by sir james I on Sunday, January 3, 2010 9:47 PM

I don't run anything that draws 15 amps. However I should say that if some one feels more comfortable using 14 ga. wire then thats what they should do. Me I have never found a need for wire that heavy on my layout. Apx 24 by 24. On a very large layout that will save on voltage drop.

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Posted by servoguy on Monday, January 4, 2010 1:10 AM

 For any of you guys that want a good discussion of wire size, go to http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/wire_resistance.html   You may be surprised at the resistance of even 14 gauge wire if the run is very long.  And remember, a 20 foot run has 40 feet of wire.  In order to keep train speeds relatively uniform over a layout, the resistance of the track needs to be kept to 0.1-0.3 ohms.  This may require larger than 14 gauge wire for long runs.

 Bob Nelson's comments about using a wire gauge that is large enough that the transformer cannot cause it to overheat should be taken seriously.  There are many things that may be connected to the track that have wire gauges much less than 14 gauge, but these things should not burn your house down if they overheat.  For example, if a switch motor overheats, it will probably smoke or fuse the magnet wire used to make the coil, but it will not set the house on fire.  

Bruce Baker

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Posted by Kooljock1 on Monday, January 4, 2010 2:34 AM

 I try for center rail drops every five track sections.  Rail joints is where most voltage loss occurs, so basing the drops on the number of rail joints is the way to go.  This is why those extra-long straights are so handy.

It will also save you money and give you a better connection if you solder the drops directly to the rail using a high wattage soldering gun.

Jon Cool

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, January 4, 2010 8:13 AM

"I don't run anything that draws 15 amps."  That doesn't matter if your transformer can supply 15 amperes.  The circuit breaker is there to take care of the abnormal situation when something on your layout draws more current than the transformer or the wiring can safely handle.  Of course, the transformer manufacturer selects wire and components for the inside of the transformer that are suitable for that current; but you have to take care responsibility for using external wiring that will not melt its insulation or ignite your flammable layout.

If you are using a large transformer for loads much smaller than it can supply, an alternative to heavy wiring is to use external circuit breakers.  For example, you might connect a ZW's 4 outputs to 4 10-ampere breakers.  Then you could safely use as small as 16 AWG wire downstream.  (Or 5 amperes and 20 AWG.)  Of course, no one output could exceed 10 amperes; but the total could exceed that, up to the 15 amperes that the transformer is rated for. 

Bob Nelson

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Posted by cnw1995 on Monday, January 4, 2010 8:35 AM
Does the distance the wire runs from a transformer make any difference? I have an R transformer with a short - maybe 6 inches - length of wire to the single lockon powering the track. Based on this thread, I was worried that the wire is too thin. I think one of my wire cutters lets me measure what gauge it is.

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by sir james I on Monday, January 4, 2010 9:22 AM

Yes Doug distance does make a difference, the longer the run,  the more voltage drops. Thats what the above post are about, well that and how many amps you will draw. However I know what engines you run and you are ok with what you have. Remember the little coils of wire Lionel has always put in their sets? Well they still do.

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Posted by SleeperN06 on Monday, January 4, 2010 10:16 AM

This year I installed 8 around my 6x8 layout. I ran a #18 solid door bell wire from each one back to my transformer/controller. It might have been a little over kill but I just happened to have 500’ roll of doorbell wire and a box of lockons. I got to say to that I’m real happy with the results. I should have done it years ago.

My trains run smooth all the way around the track. I did have to add some diodes to lower the voltage because the trains were running so fast that my grandson was running them into the wall.Smile,Wink, & Grin

Thanks, JohnnyB
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Posted by cnw1995 on Monday, January 4, 2010 10:39 AM
Whew! I use the little coils Lionel gave me. Thank you. And as you know, I have small engines and short trains. All the transformers, the R, the new CW-80 and two older Lionel train set transformers are all in a row with their wire going directly to lockons behind them. I was worried that wire wasn't thick enough - if that's the right way to say it.

Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Monday, January 4, 2010 4:17 PM

Those little green coils are 22 AWG, which is safe for about 3.5 amperes.  However, the wire is only about 7 inches long, which allows some of the heat to flow to the terminals at each end.  I would consider them barely heavy enough for 5 amperes, which, I believe is all the CW-80 puts out.  The R is pretty close to that, also.

For a transformer any bigger or a distance any longer, I would definitely use heavier wire, even if the green coil came with the set.

Bob Nelson

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