Anyone Interested in Lionel "Super O" Track?

[Anonymous]

RAK402---If you want to remain true to your 1960 memories I suggest Gargraves track. It was common back then. My dad used some really home made flex track back around 1950. It consisted of ties sawed off long grooved 1/2" painted stock with rails made of some kind of bar stock pressed into the grooves. Rail joints had no pins (remember it was solid bar stock) but used little pieces of sheet copper stuffed in the grooves with the rails. This type of track came with ready made powered switches (which we never used). I described this rail before and someone on the OGR forum recognized it and named it, but I lost the name. This track was from before WWII. My dad bought the trains from his boss right after the war. This would give you a really old ime appearance. Odd-d

[Anonymous]

Odd-d,

I knew that they only made it in 18" radiuus. It was not a problem when I was a kid, but I keep gravitating toward the newer more scale locomotives that are available now. I still have my Super O layout that my father built for me back in 1960 and I want it to stay fairly authentic to that period (although I have added DCS and TMCC to it). I have been thinking of expanding it to add another loop of a wider radiuus around the existing track and was trying to think of which system to use (including making some five rail track so that I could run Standard Gauge). Again, I did not want to modify it too much from its postwar appearance. I think that Mr. Spanier's advice regarding the gentleman to modifies the radiuus of Super O is just what I need. I can have my proverbial cake and eat it too.

I do agree that there is a fantastic assortment of probably better track systems available today, but sometimes a person just likes what they like, for whatever reason. There is still a stock 1940 Ford in my garage. I still like to listen to am radios from the 1930's (I have to broadcast to them in order to get the "correct" type of music. My post-war 736 is still operational and sitting where I can see it if I type this. It is still one of my favorites, even though my modern locomotives run much better.

Super O reminds me of being a kid and sharing the train hobby with my Dad.

Whatever makes one happy.

[JFermani]

I would prefer Lionel's T-Rail. Using today's technology, I bet Lionel could upgrade and reproduce T-rail and it would sell well. Sold rails, fishplates - just like real railroad track. If done right it could be the scale track of choice for modelers. I am currently looking at what track I want to use for my new layout and so far I am undecided. I want something current and dependable. You won't get much loss in sold rail plus if Lionel makes it compatible with magnetraction locs it would be all the better.

Joe

[lionelsuperotrack]

Really, there are other limiting factors but the 36" radius, in 2004, is not one of them. All radius track in "Super O" is retro made by Elliott Welz in the TCA (54", 60", 72" for example. It is a work of art.

Now if you want a limiting factor, the switches can be an issue as they are only available in 36" radius.

The grooving of 3rd rail pickups is not an issue of consequence either, which brings us back to if 36" radius is not good enough on your switches you have an issue. Remember of course that you can use wide radius "Super O" for main lines with the "through" section (straight) of the switch. Most postwar runs just fine on "Super O".

Mike Spanier
TCA 85-21856

[3railguy]

QUOTE: John, it sounds like you want Atlas, but with fewer ties

Big Boy.........If you're into pre and postwar, Atlas doesn't come close to prewar T rail by a longshot. T rail just looks right with vintage trains with its metal ties and all. The owner attached fishplates, nuts, and bolts add to the character. I wi***hey would make it because the Origional T rail it's going for around $20 or $30 a section. Switches are like $400 a pair for good ones.

[Anonymous]

RAK402---- They never made Super O track in 36" radius. That's one of the negatives about it. They only had one radius. It was just as limiting as O27 or O31. Look at all the variety we have now. YIPPEE! We can be in track heaven if we only look at the present. I'm curious: why did they stop making Super O and why haven't they made it since they stopped decades ago? If it would sell I'm sure Lionel would stumble all over themselves to get it back on the market. Oh well, everything I used to have as a kid has been reissued, but I only bought two things I remembered from my childhood, and I'm still not sure how I can incorporate them in my pike. Just wait....by the time you get to my age they probably will have made some Super O unless it was made in Japan and licensed from another manufacturer. Odd-d

[Anonymous]

I have enough trouble trying to hunt down stuff to run ON the darn track, I don't need another search on my hands for track. No thank you.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3railguy

The track I want to see reproduced is prewar T Rail. MTH scale trax is probably a close resemblence to super O. Super O sure has gained acceptance. In the 80's you could not give it away.

John, it sounds like you want Atlas, but with fewer ties. The only fault I really see with super O, is the center rail joint, and all of those little clips. The copper blended well with the brown ties. I'm not sure about the claims of roller wear.

[3railguy]

The track I want to see reproduced is prewar T Rail. MTH scale trax is probably a close resemblence to super O. Super O sure has gained acceptance. In the 80's you could not give it away.

[Anonymous]

With all due respect to Odd-d, if I could buy a loop of Super-O in a 36" radius, I would burn my hand getting my wallet out of my pocket. I love the stuff. Probably not for any practical reason, I just like it.

Super O did have some disadvantages: the blade-like center rail prevented me from running my Marx equipment or my Flying Yankee, pre-war stamped wheel flanges were too deep for it, but other than that, I thought it was great. The only roller damage that I ever had was on a locomotive that had a roller hang up and not rotate. It sawed partway through the roller. That was a "one time anecdotal occurance".

[Anonymous]

Super O....SCHMUPER O! This was ahead of its time when it was issued, but now it is sadly behind the times. If anybody were to make it now I WOULD NOT buy it. There are so many new and better systems with more choices and better looking track. This is just another one of the same old wheeze, love or hate command control, who makes the best smoke. Lionel Post War is better than modern trains, stud rail, merits of Chinese made trains, et c ad ho-hum and humdrum. The reason that nobody makes Super O is because it did not sell and will not sell. Get over it. It's not gonna happen until the Tooth Fairy comes. If you want two rail you don't need to reinvent it, just trade in your current trains for two rail ones. Seriously, what are the advantages of Super O over the track systems now on the market? I would fault Super O for its lack of choices in track radii, the thin bladelike third rail that eats up rollers and incompatibility with other systems. Don't mind me, it's just that I've seen this topic so often. Odd-d

[3railguy]

I have some of the old Kusan track. It is 042 diameter. The ties are black and the rail is tubular. The center rail is not blackened. The track mates to Lionel 031. I do not know if Kusan made switches. Kusan also made 2 rail sectional track.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 3railguy

For a twist of fate, K-Line shadow rail is rooted to Kusan three rail track of the 50's. Sometime during the 80's, K-Line bought the Kusan tooling, eventually re-issued the track, and expanded the variety. I'm certain Kusan came out with their three rail track before Lionel came out with Super O.

Now that is interesting, live and learn. I have only ever been vaguely familiar with the offerings of Kusan, and have never seen an example of their track. I did know that K-line had gotten some of their old tooling as well as some of Marx's. But I would think that most, if not all, of the tooling for for the new track would have to be new because of the large variety of pieces.

Did the Kusan track have the black center rail, or was that a Gargraves exclusive?

[3railguy]

For a twist of fate, K-Line shadow rail is rooted to Kusan three rail track of the 50's. Sometime during the 80's, K-Line bought the Kusan tooling, eventually re-issued the track, and expanded the variety. I'm certain Kusan came out with their three rail track before Lionel came out with Super O.

[Big_Boy_4005]

My opinion is that super O track was ahead of it's time in terms of it's appearance and design. Unfortunately it never really had the chance to catch on before the economics killed it. K-line has kind of captured the flavor of Super O with their SuperSnap and Shadow Rail tracks.

[lionelsuperotrack]

If you have an interest or curiosity about Lionel "Super O" track take a look at "The History of Lionel 'Super O' Track" which is linked below as well as the brand new "Lionel_SuperO_Track Group":

All questions and comments are welcome.

Very best, Mike ([e-mail])

The History of Lionel "Super O" Track
( http://www.tcamembers.org/articles/operating/supero/index.html )

Lionel_SuperO_Track Yahoo Group
( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lionel_SuperO_Track/ )

"e-Train" TCA Online Magazine
( http://www.tcamembers.org/articles/ )