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Question about wiring multiple postwar accessories

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Posted by mikeberry on Friday, January 1, 2010 3:14 PM

Thanks for even more ideas.  I think I will try and upload a pic later to give an idea of what I am trying to accomplish.  I will also give a current list of what I would be powering.  My 2 year old son will not allow me to accomplish this at the moment!  :)

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Posted by brianel027 on Friday, January 1, 2010 1:14 PM

Hey Mike, you're not too far away from me in Corning.

I'll second that using smaller transformers to customize power needs is a practical way to go. Especially if you are like me, where you have bought quite a few sets in the past (great affordable way to get more cars, a loco, track, power and whatever other little bonus items in a particular set) so I have lots of small transformers.

The downside is because of their lower amperage, you won't be able to run a lot of accessories that need continuous power. On the other hand,  with accessories that use momentary power, you can have quite a few.

I have all my uncoupling tracks rewired to take auxiliary power, so that I can get cars to uncouple regardless of voltage to the track. The same transformer also powers several smoke units I have installed in buildings and factories. It also powers a re-built K-Line junction tower, which I rewired to get the light on to a separate circuit.

Another small transformer controls a Banjo signal and an operating beacon tower with a vibrator motor and an operating fuel station.

I also use some larger DC power packs to operate some accessories like my crossing gates, where I'd rather not hear the buzz that normally happens with AC power.

So you get the idea... with smaller transformers you can easily adjust the power going to these momentarily operated accessories and get them to operate the way you want them to. And typically small transformers are pretty cheap as most collectors and operators don't pay much attention to them. A couple of the postwar and MPC small starter set transformers are actually 45-50 volts instead of the typical 20-35 volt type.

And the small cheap K-Line starter set transformer gives you a zero starting point and is more sensitive when adjusting voltage levels, so for something that doesn't need a lot of power, that little K-Line starter transformer is a gem. And again, pretty cheap. Even cheaper if you were buying K-Line trains sets like I was at one time.

brianel, Agent 027

"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."

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Posted by servoguy on Friday, January 1, 2010 1:05 PM

 Mike,

I recently looked at the feasibility of using commercial fixed voltage transformers and/or variacs to make a variable voltage power supply.  You can buy used Lionel transformers much, much cheaper.   I have recently bought two KWs, one for $20, one for $35.  I had to go through both of them, but that is cheap for a total of 380 watts of power.  The KWs have 3 fixed voltage taps and 2 variable taps.  It has a whistle control and direction control for both of the variable taps.  The fixed taps are 6, 14, and 20 volts.  The 6 and 20 volt taps are referenced to the U terminal.  The 14 volts is referenced to the 6 volt terminal.  I saw one at a swap meet recently, and it was priced at $80 but looked to be in better condition than the two I bought.  I had to go through mine and fix a few things like broken terminals. 

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Posted by mikeberry on Friday, January 1, 2010 10:35 AM

Thanks for sharing that Rob.  I understand now.  I need to think a little more in terms of 1950's technology and how it was done then.  Thanks again.  Mike

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Friday, January 1, 2010 9:14 AM

mikeberry
I am still curious how they wired the accessories on the big postwar showroom layouts.  Did they just use the different voltage taps?

 

 

The 1949 layout at the Lionel showroom had 5 loops of trains running.  There were 16 variable voltage controls at the main panel alone, in plain sight.  So nominally , they had up to 11 variable circuits at hand to adjust accessories.  Likely, the 8 large handles were reserved for train running - yard, spurs & passing sidings included, so that would leave a minimum of 8 for accessories.

Rob

Rob

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Posted by mikeberry on Friday, January 1, 2010 8:54 AM

Thank you everyone for the ideas!  I guess if I think abouut it a little more I could probably combine the different ideas.  I can use the multiple taps off of a transformer and if I have something that is really picky I can use the rectifier bridge.  Thanks again for all the info.

I am still curious how they wired the accessories on the big postwar showroom layouts.  Did they just use the different voltage taps?

Happy New Year!!

 Mike

 

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Posted by servoguy on Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:38 PM

 I would suggest you look for a Type V transformer.  It has 4 variable voltage outputs, and they are ususally pretty cheap.  A Type Z is an alternative.  It is larger than the Type V.  The Type V is 150 watts, and the Type Z is 250 watts.  If you use rheostats and/or diodes, you may be dissipating a lot of heat.  It depends on the current and the voltage drop in the rheostats or diodes.

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Posted by lionelsoni on Thursday, December 31, 2009 11:10 PM

I agree with Rob.  And, even if you can adjust most accessories that way, any you have that operate intermittently, will get a voltage that can vary substantially depending on what it is doing.  For example, the lamp of a 151 semaphore would be very bright while green until the flag dropped, then very dim while red.

If you are set on using a single transformer, there is a way to get a variety of voltages that are not as sensitive to the load as they would be using rheostats.  You can make a string of pairs of back-to-back diodes connected to the transformer's output, then connect accessories to various points on the string to get the voltages you want.  That voltage will vary much less than with the rheostat approach.

An easy way to make the string is to use bridge-rectifier modules, like this one http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062580 , used not for rectifying but for voltage dropping.  Connect the + and - terminals of each module together.  Then connect the modules in series using their ~ terminals.  Connect the accessories to the points between modules or the +- points within modules to adjust voltage in roughly 1/2-volt steps.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by mikeberry on Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:57 PM

Holy cow, they are expensive!  How do they regulate all the accessories on the big classic showroom layouts?

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:42 PM

mikeberry
Is there anything you know of currently available like a variable pot from Radio Shack/electronics store that will work?

 

They are expensive. You want maybe 20-30 watts,  5-10 ohms, depending on the accessory & load.

Look here.

You would actually be better off buying  separate small 25-30-35-40 watt starter set transformers for a few dollars each - one for each accessory.

Rob

Rob

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Posted by mikeberry on Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:17 PM

Hi Rob, thanks for the info.  As far as the lights go, I may want to vary them also.  With the operating accessories, I really wanted to be able to fine tune each one so that at any time I can turn one on and have it work without messing around with adjusting the voltage.

 Is there anything you know of currently available like a variable pot from Radio Shack/electronics store that will work?

Thanks, 

Mike

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Thursday, December 31, 2009 8:41 PM

 If you really want to do it that way, you can use a rheostat for each accessory.  Lionel made different ones in the prewar era and they do show up on eBay a lot... #81, #88, & #95.

You would be better off using a tap on the transformer that matches what you are powering - especially lights.  For lights, use the lowest fixed voltage that  gives desirable appearance.  For operating accessories, you may want to use variable taps and adjust the transformer for the accessory you are using at the moment.

Rob

Rob

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Question about wiring multiple postwar accessories
Posted by mikeberry on Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:45 PM

Hi everyone, I will start by telling you what my idea is and then any suggestions would be very helpful.  I have quite a few postwar accessories.  I am going to hook them up to the 25v tap on a TW.  The problem is that I need to be able to regulate the voltage on each of the accessories so I can "tune" them to operate just right.  Does anyone know of a good pot or rheostat that would be good for (and not real expensive) this application?  If anyone has any better suggestions, please let me know.

On a side note, I received my newest accessory today.  A 197 (the orange version) in fantastic condition, no cracks, straight antenna, radar has ALL the silver, instruction sheet and a box like a brick.  85.00!!!   I am pretty happy!!

 Thank you for any help you can offer.  Have a safe and happy New Year!

 

Mike

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