Berk765 The only issue with it at times is that the throttle handle has been broken in so much that it doesn't want to stay at the throttle setting where I set it at.
The only issue with it at times is that the throttle handle has been broken in so much that it doesn't want to stay at the throttle setting where I set it at.
You mentioned that your CW80 Throttle was worn out and I just wanted to mention how easy it is too replace.
I don’t know if it is possible to order a new part, but it is very easy to replace, that is if you can find one. I was expecting to see some huge heavy potentiometer, but was very surprised to see this tiny little pot. I missed it in the photo but the wires are only a couple of inches with a small plug attached. The plug connects right to circuit board so there’s no soldering.
ADCX Rob SleeperN06I think there is something wrong with my CW80 transformer... I think you will find that the direction button has a "hair-trigger" and does not have the tactile feel of the bell & whistle buttons. If this is the case, I can help. The security bit needed is the Triangle recess BT-3R2. Rob
SleeperN06I think there is something wrong with my CW80 transformer...
I think you will find that the direction button has a "hair-trigger" and does not have the tactile feel of the bell & whistle buttons. If this is the case, I can help. The security bit needed is the Triangle recess BT-3R2.
Rob
It seems to be working properly now and many thanks to Rob for guiding me in the right direction.
lionelsoni The design and quality issues have been aired out; but little or nothing has been said about the phase control. This is not an unreasonable way to power trains; but it is very different from the traditional way of doing things. It has been reported that the phase-control waveform of the CW-80 causes trouble with some other manufacturers' trains; and it makes measuring voltage problematic. So it is worth knowing when deciding whether to use a CW-80 or its variants.
The design and quality issues have been aired out; but little or nothing has been said about the phase control. This is not an unreasonable way to power trains; but it is very different from the traditional way of doing things. It has been reported that the phase-control waveform of the CW-80 causes trouble with some other manufacturers' trains; and it makes measuring voltage problematic. So it is worth knowing when deciding whether to use a CW-80 or its variants.
Oh wow Bob, I’m going to have to study that some more. I only heard that term once before in another thread, but I forgot about it.
Anyway I manged to remove the cover. I made Special Security Screwdriver to remove screws from 16d nail. The nail was pretty soft steel and had to be ground again after 2 screws, but it worked. Now that I have the size down I’ll make one out of an old Phillips screwdriver unless I find one at Harbor Freight. I didn’t realize how difficult it is to grind a perfect triangle.
Phase control is the same technique that is used for household light dimmers. It varies the voltage by removing the first part of each half-cycle of the sinusoidal voltage waveform. Part-way into each half-cycle, a thyristor connects the actual transformer (which is not variable like a postwar transformer) to the output terminals. It remains connected until the end of the half-cycle. This reduces the effective voltage to the level commanded by the orange lever; but, in the process, it produces a waveform very unlike the one that the locomotive's designers may have anticipated. This can cause improper operation, particularly with an electronics-heavy modern locomotive.
Another, minor problem is that the effective voltage, usually measured as root-mean-square (RMS) voltage, cannot be measured with any accuracy by a simple AC voltmeter. Instead, you need a more-expensive "true-RMS" meter. The same is true about measuring the current that the train draws.
Bob Nelson
I'm sorry about your bad luck with the 80 watter. I think I would just keep the set and add on to it if you can, and buy a better transformer like you said, but fastrack is expensive to add on to though. There are tons of transformers to choose from out there. MTH makes a nice 100 watt transformer, and Atlas O makes an 80 watt transformer. I guess you can put one of those back in the sets packaging. I guess its just the luck of the draw that people have bad luck with new stuff. I shure hope the KW I'm getting will be a great one, and i'm kind of nervous about it also because I have ziltch experiance with old transformers.
Give me steam locomotives or give me DEATH!
Berkshire Junction, bringing fourth the cry of the Iron Horse since 1900.
HI,
I JUST FIXED A CW80. YOU NEED A SPECIAL EQUAL SIDED TRI-ANGLE TOOL. I STARTED WITH A PHILLIPS HEAD SCREWDRIVER AND STARTED TO GRIND AWAY. AFTER ABOUT TWO MINS. & ALOT OF SPARKS I HAD THE MAGIC TOOL.ONCE INSIDE I FOUND ONE THE FANS TWO SCREW NUTS HAD COME OFF. FOUND THE NUT & A LITTLE SUPER GLUE WE ARE GOOD. THIS FIX IS NOT REQUIRED SINCE THE FAN STILL WORKS FINE WITH OR WITHOUT THE NOISE.
REGARDS,
T-TRAINS
Kooljock1The original set of CW-80's had design and production problems. The newer CW-80's have corrected all of the early problems, including polarity issues, fan failures, and the rest.The new CW-80's are very nice little transformers.
The original set of CW-80's had design and production problems. The newer CW-80's have corrected all of the early problems, including polarity issues, fan failures, and the rest.
The new CW-80's are very nice little transformers.
Thanks for sticking up for the much maligned CW-80, Jon. I got one of the newer ones with our P.E. set and like it so well that my main motivation in getting another starter set (on a good sale) was the included CW-80. It was, like, "buy a transformer and get some trains and track free!" I'm especially fond of the adjustable/programmable accessory voltage feature.
Pete
"You can’t study the darkness by flooding it with light." - Edward Abbey -
I had one of the "problem transformers" from early CW80 production in the Hobo set. Called Lionel and didn't have to do anything, in a day and a half, they had a new one at my door. Have not had a problem since. I still have the old CW80 that I have the bit for, but have not opened her up yet. Someday, I will, but only for my own use. I would suggest not fixing it and trying to sell it....just in case there is a problem, liability would concern me.
Regarding Lionel quality, My opinion is that all the modern manufacturers have similar issues. The quality and detail of modern pieces is superb for all the added features. We have excellent graphics, realistic sound and operation, and some are powerful pullers. That said, along with all the bells and whistles, come a lot more that can go wrong. In the past, most problems could easily be fixed by most hobby enthusiasts. Now, the circuit boards of today are beyond the ability of most hobbyists to repair. We have also entered a time when quality control is non existent. It is more a reaction to customer complaints rather than having a staff prevent defects from ever leaving the plant.
With regard to your wanting to perhaps sell the P.E. in the future, I have seen them go for $180. for a new set from a store. Not sure that it would be worth the effort to resell. For me, I'd just enjoy it and run it as is.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Jon
Berk765 Well I have to say, despite all the bad press about the little CW-80, mine has been doing well. I have two of them, one thats about 10 years old now and it still works great for me. The only issue with it at times is that the throttle handle has been broken in so much that it doesn't want to stay at the throttle setting where I set it at. I have another one thats about maybe 2 or 3 years old with a cooling fan, which has gone out some time ago. The power light has burned out in it too though, but its still doing well, but not as well as the older one as nothings really wrong with it at all. They have been great transformers for me, but will soon retire them and let the big KW transformer do the heavy work.
Well I have to say, despite all the bad press about the little CW-80, mine has been doing well. I have two of them, one thats about 10 years old now and it still works great for me. The only issue with it at times is that the throttle handle has been broken in so much that it doesn't want to stay at the throttle setting where I set it at. I have another one thats about maybe 2 or 3 years old with a cooling fan, which has gone out some time ago. The power light has burned out in it too though, but its still doing well, but not as well as the older one as nothings really wrong with it at all. They have been great transformers for me, but will soon retire them and let the big KW transformer do the heavy work.
Well, I’m glad to hear that. I can understand normal wear and tear, but to have so many defective items come right out of the box is beyond me. What happened to quality control? I sometimes wonder if China even understands the concept.
This particular CW-80 has less than 30 hours on it and actually probably less than 20. I’ve been trying to preserve this Polar Express set for resale some day when I can no longer “kick it”. If I would have known about these problems before hand, I would never have taken it out of the box just like as I did with the track.
I’ve been looking for a reason to buy a better transformer. Maybe I’ll swap it with a good one, put the good one back in its packaging to never be used again and then buy a better one that can handle at least 4 trains. But now the question is, am going to buy another Lionel? I don’t know.
bfskinner At one point, rather than requiring the customers to send their faulty CW-80's back, Lionel Customer Service merely required the customer to cut off the cord and return it. Then they would quickly ship a new CW-80 to the customer, free of charge and postage paid. They have used various other schemes* to try to ensure that the faulty ones were removed from circulation. I would never buy one, either original or revised, that had the cord missing, regardless of what the seller said about it.
At one point, rather than requiring the customers to send their faulty CW-80's back, Lionel Customer Service merely required the customer to cut off the cord and return it. Then they would quickly ship a new CW-80 to the customer, free of charge and postage paid. They have used various other schemes* to try to ensure that the faulty ones were removed from circulation. I would never buy one, either original or revised, that had the cord missing, regardless of what the seller said about it.
Aw, that explains why all the transformers on eBay without cords. I thought it was odd and I could not think of a reason for it, I just assumed that the plugs & cord had worn or frayed.
SleeperN06 First, I just want to thank everyone for replying. Disappointing, but helpful. I was comparing a good transformer with the one in question and I can hear the fan in both but one sounds like its rubbing against a wire or something. I can’t tell much by the feel of the reverse button, but I did notice that it does not seem to work at all. I forgot to check the whistle, but the trains run great except for the reversing problem. Here is a photo of the label. I don’t see any “G” only “Made in China”. Oh, BF I’ve had a beard ever since I got back from Vietnam. A close friend once told me that he wears his beard because he was just downright ugly.
Yours is definitely an early or pre-revision version, The way I interpret the Made in China date is "September, 2005." I've never seen a revised one with a date earlier than 2006; and they also have a "G" prefix to the date. There may be some non-revised ones with a 2006 date, but they won't have the "G". I asked Lionel Customer Service precisely this question, but they went all wobbly and wouldn't give me a firm answer.
Psych 101: Women get face lifts; men grow beards.
* I've heard of Lionel asking for the cord, orange handle, two-ears and the tail, etc., to keep the customers' costs down when a replacement was warranted.
BoydOr you can just cut the cord off and use it as a doorstop.
I think you can still use the fixed voltage portion of them if the variable voltage part quits.
Or you can just cut the cord off and use it as a doorstop.
Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
SleeperN06I had a bit set with the right size, but the holder will not fit into the hole...
If you have a QUALITY Allen key set, or similar Stanley, Craftsman, or Snap-On hex keys, one of those will work too. An inferior tool will cam-out.
ADCX Rob If you do get it open, the only thing you have to do is file the underside of the direction button just until the "pop" comes back when you are pushing it on the circuit board. It's just a bit too thick, and is holding down the push-switch on the circuit board activating the direction feature randomly. Rob
If you do get it open, the only thing you have to do is file the underside of the direction button just until the "pop" comes back when you are pushing it on the circuit board. It's just a bit too thick, and is holding down the push-switch on the circuit board activating the direction feature randomly.
Thanks Rob, I had a bit set with the right size, but the holder will not fit into the hole, so I’m going to have to buy something long enough to reach.
SleeperN06I can’t tell much by the feel of the reverse button, but I did notice that it does not seem to work at all.
That actually says a lot.
The usual symptom is just no power to the track - all else OK. Most people just throw away the transformer.
First, I just want to thank everyone for replying. Disappointing, but helpful.
I was comparing a good transformer with the one in question and I can hear the fan in both but one sounds like its rubbing against a wire or something. I can’t tell much by the feel of the reverse button, but I did notice that it does not seem to work at all. I forgot to check the whistle, but the trains run great except for the reversing problem.
Here is a photo of the label. I don’t see any “G” only “Made in China”.
Oh, BF I’ve had a beard ever since I got back from Vietnam. A close friend once told me that he wears his beard because he was just downright ugly.
Sorry for your troubles. I'm not getting out of 2009 much better off.
That said, "this is not your father's Oldsmobile." In fact, there is no Oldsmobile any more.
There is at least something with the Lionel name on it, and I think they are getting better from a low point they hit a couple of years ago.
Get that Made in China date. Avoid any CW-80 with a Made in China date without a "G" preface to it. Read the archives (Search Community) if you doubt me.
If your avatar is actually a recent picture of you, you could substitute mine and no one would notice the difference. That's why I don't post mine. 2010 will be different. Not necessarily better, but different.
Happy New One!
I’ve been under the impression my whole life that the Lionel meant dependability. I got to say that from what I’ve been reading about Lionel here in this forum the last couple of months has just about shattered everything I believed in.
I’ve been looking at transformers on eBay for a month and even bid on 2 or 3, but I don’t know if I’d do any better than if I just bought a new one. At this point I’ve got nothing to lose. The transformer is at least 4 years old, so I’m going to take it apart.
Today is not going very good for me. Besides the CW80 thing, my $300 printer died and my daughter wreaked her car. It is not my lucky day so I know I’d be pressing my luck to do anything more today. Tomorrow is a new year and I hope a new start.
As I understand it, CW-80's are not designed to be repaired by anybody: not Lionel, not an Authorized Service Station, not the owner. They come with a one-year warranty from the date of purchase and if they fail within that period, Lionel will promptly replace* them. After that, you're own your own.
Some electronic whizards have indeed discovered how to get inside the case and a few have made repairs, but that is the exception, not the norm.
What is the "Made in China" date on the bottom of the device.
There are literally reams of prose in the forum archives, but I doubt anything will be of use. Are you talking about fan noises? If so, try "running it in" for a few hours of hours to see whether it will loosen up. Maybe give it a couple of whacks. It's just a little muffin fan like in a small computer, and sometimes it gets a little cockeyed.
Unintentional and unexpected direction changes are usually caused by a loose connection in the electrical power feeds, either inside the case or in the power connections to the track, including dirty track itself. Any event that breaks the circuit between transformer and locomotive will cause the e-unit to cycle, but generally they go from forward to neutral and not from forward to reverse, as long as there is not an old-fashioned two-position e-unit in play.
You might try contacting Lionel Customer Service with the plea that your old purchase-date bears no relationship to the the placed-in-service date, and it never worked correctly from the get-go. Good luck.
*I know, I know. The Owner's Manual speaks of repairs. I believe that is just "boiler-plate" and that no such Lionel service intent or capability exists for CW-80's. In other words, they either replace it cheerfully, or tell you that you are SOL -- at least in my experience.
Check eBay. I think you'll find that the going prices for CW-80's, even those that purport to work correctly, are rather low.
If it is repairable at a service station the repair expense may be as much as buying a new one on the bay.
Bill T.
I’ve been reading the other treads about getting bigger transformers and I may eventually get a new transformer that handles 4 trains.
I got to get this one fixed just in case I ever want to sell it. I’ve kept all the original packaging and the track is unused. I don’t think I’ll get much for it if the transformer is not working properly.
The CW80 isn't designed to be opened. It can be, but you need a special screwdriver bit. I don't know what it is, There may be someone else that does. If you have other transformers, I'd use them to run your trains. Use the CW for accessories.
A Day Without Trains is a Day Wasted
I think there is something wrong with my CW80 transformer. it made strange noises ever since I got it. It came with my Polar Express set, but I bought it in an after Christmas sale and did not try it out until the following year. I immediately sent Lionel an email expressing my concern and they said not to worry that it was OK. Well it still makes some extraordinary noises and not it changes directions from forward to reverse without notice. At first I thought it was a bad reverse card in the loco, but now I realize that it does it with 4 separate Locos from different years. I swapped transformers just in case it might the track wiring and the problem is unique to this one transformer.
I can’t do anything about it right now, because there is too much going on. I want to take it apart tomorrow and I was wondering if there is anything I should be looking for.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month