Let me suggest that the very electrical fragility and technical obsolescence that causes so many modern trains to fail may make them the most valuable collectables of all. If in 2060, you happen to have a 2010 TMCC locomotive that still works, you might be one wealthy model railroader! Perhaps the trick would be to buy a dozen or so of the same thing, stash them away, and hope that one or two still work in 50 years.
Bob Nelson
DocBen - First off ---> .
To answer your thread, I judge by prices at train shows (and I get to a half-dozen a year). The modern era (which in my mind is linked to the wholesale jump of the big brands to China) hasn't "realized" its collectability. What commands higher prices on that end of the spectrum are the "limited run" items. Two quick examples are the "Iron City" cars produced by MTH, and the steel slag cars by LIONEL. Hard to find accessories (Nuclear plant and the Rotary Coal Dump) also command "pilgrim's prices". Some of the convevtion cars from TCA,LOTS,and OTTS also have increased in value.
I agree with what has already been said. You have an heirloom type of set that begs for restoration, and there are plenty of tables of AF trains to keep you buying for decades.
cwburfle11th Street Because software based printed circuit boards have come to dominate the operating (ie motive power/accessories) side of the hobby, post 1980 production has become a disposable product, like all consuner elctronics, like DOS3.3/Win95 software-equipment. Lionel used electromechanical E-units in at least some products until about 1994. That's my cut off point.
11th Street Because software based printed circuit boards have come to dominate the operating (ie motive power/accessories) side of the hobby, post 1980 production has become a disposable product, like all consuner elctronics, like DOS3.3/Win95 software-equipment.
Because software based printed circuit boards have come to dominate the operating (ie motive power/accessories) side of the hobby, post 1980 production has become a disposable product, like all consuner elctronics, like DOS3.3/Win95 software-equipment.
Lionel used electromechanical E-units in at least some products until about 1994. That's my cut off point.
Agreed. The point at which simple mechanical devices gave way to electronics is the point at which I Just Say No. If I wanted scale models and command control, I'd go with O scale and be done with it. No offense to those who like those things, but they're not for me.
Some of the newer Lionel cars are nice, and go well with my postwar locomotives. And Fastrak is a superior track system to the old tubular track. But that's as far as my interest in modern Lionel goes.
DocBenI am newish here...been reading up for a while. I have a 1938 AF set that I inherited from my father-in-law. It was purchased for him the day he was born. Other than that...new to the train obsession...but learning fast. However...after reading about all of the changes that have occurred over the years...more plastic and less quality since the 50s...I have no idea where to start with modern-day collecting? Do the experts here have opinions on what modern train collections have the best quality and would be good collectibles in, say, 50 years? I'm asking this knowing that EVERYONE will have an opinion...but thought I'd ask anyway...thanks!
I am newish here...been reading up for a while. I have a 1938 AF set that I inherited from my father-in-law. It was purchased for him the day he was born. Other than that...new to the train obsession...but learning fast. However...after reading about all of the changes that have occurred over the years...more plastic and less quality since the 50s...I have no idea where to start with modern-day collecting?
Do the experts here have opinions on what modern train collections have the best quality and would be good collectibles in, say, 50 years? I'm asking this knowing that EVERYONE will have an opinion...but thought I'd ask anyway...thanks!
That's the spirit, and how the fun begins. In time you might wish to consider some modest layout building, and perhaps developing some of the skills that are entailed. Everyone who enjoys this hobby started someplace, and one really never know where that might lead.
Most of all: welcome aboard & enjoy the ride. Cheers!
Thank you very much for your input. Sounds like VERY good information. I will continue in my interest, and buy what I like. Sounds like sound and inexpensive information! I will also just keep my old 38 American Flyer, and perhaps get it running in the near future.
I apologize for the double breaks and large type. I edited the original 4 times and inserted the paragraph breaks 4 differnt times, only to have the text appear as one long solid paragraph repeatedly.
Now that I'm frustrated, I think I'll go run some trains with the best most dependable operating system: conventional!!!!
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
Doc, I go along Thor's line of thinking - and his website is just fabulous and I've always recommended it to anyone new to the hobby.Yes, for the most part it is hard to beat postwar quality, though there were certainly some cheaper postwar items too.
The great thing about the older stuff is that SO MUCH of it was made. Because of that, there are companies that make reproduction parts because they can make profit doing so. Plus there are plenty of beaters out there you can get parts from. Not to mention that there are original parts. There have been plenty of stories on this very forum of guys who have gotten old beaters and with some effort, have brought them back to life.
Now as far as newer trains, well there's more plastic in everything! That doesn't necessarily indicate less quality. Many moan over the plastic gears used on Lionel locomotives during the MPC years (1970-1986) - and up to current date - but in my experience, you take care of them and keep them lubed and 40 years later they still work.
I'm very fond of the low end Lionel stuff that often gets knocked. But that comes to my advantage as I often get small MPC steamers for $5-10 each. Not many want them, so prices are dirt cheap for trains. I work on them, repaint them, add weight to the chassis and shell, add details, cab figures, lights etc. It's amazing how well the little guys pull when I'm done with them. Heck, I have a Lionel Kickapoo Dockside steamer and with no alterations, it still easily pulls a 6-10 car train.
One of the more ironic things of this hobby is how often you read about how great all the new top-level trains are today. And they are nice for sure. But then you read all the complaints about fragile easily broken parts, how circuit boards fail, no parts available, dead out of the box, or failures after a short run on the layout, having to send a loco away for months to get fixed... etc.
Then you read comments knocking starter sets, MPC era trains, low end Lionel, etc. But I've never had one DOA ever. Never had anything fail after a short period of running. I've never not been able to find parts I wanted or needed for a improvment. Everything runs and works beyond my expectations. I have MPC locos that are nearly 40 years old and more modern lower end K-Line and Lionel stuff getting on 20 years of running.
Granted there were some cost cutting measures employed during the MPC years and early Kughn years of Lionel. But plastic rivets holding trucks are easily replaced, as are plastic wheel sets, as are trucks with dummy couplers. One nice thing about these kinds of cars is that they can be gotten at little expense. Many of the cars were unpainted plastic, which is good for a kid's layout. But I don't mind repainting.
And instances where I like the car, I will prime the underside or inside of the car to make it more opaque. Hey, what I expect for train cars I pay $2-3 or maybe $5 for each. It's a hobby and I don't mind doing a little creative work... that's part of the fun for me.
And I know digital command control is nice, and some really like it. But I'm not missing anything with the old fashioned way of running trains. I have more than enough troubles with my computer to want to introduce that frustration to my train layout. I run trains for FUN, not FRUSTRATION.
BUT as for collectibles as in "financial return." Buy it because YOU like it. No other reason. Enjoy it and take care of it. Eventually if you have to sell it, you'll get some money for it. But factor in all the fun you had doing a layout and running trains and getting any money after that is almost unbelievable. That's part of the reason why some of the older trains hold monetary value... it's the sentimental value from those who remember all the fun they had as kids with these trains.
It appears that postwar Lionel still is collectable. As for the modern stuff I fear the electronics will become outdated and useless. And Who is going to make gears and siderods ect. The companys are only stocking recent parts now. So I sure wouldn't buy anything as an investment.
An after thought, a lifetime warranty is only good if the company is still around.
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
Looking back on history, I'd be tempted to say the most collectible pieces were the ones people hated the most. But at some point they have to have some kind of inherent intrinsic value.
To be really collectible, they have to have a cultural tie to a time that is no more, but is still greatly valued by the collector community. So for instance, the 1957 Lady Lionel set is sought after as an emblem of a time when women were valued inways markedly different than today.
Another example would be the collectibility of Lionel Cold War Space & Military trains. These represent a closed epoch in American History. Same too for the 1930's Art Deco Streamliner sets.
To try and name a collector train made today, you would have to pinpoint an item you feel is most representative of this moment in time, and a set that has enough intrinsic value to last the test of time.
An example of getting it half-right might be the 1980's L.A.S.E.R. train set from Lionel. It certainly represents the era of "War Games" and "Tron", but has so little intrinsic value that it does not bear out in collector pricing.
Perhaps Lionel's HHP-8 set, made with good quality (reviews are good) and in limited enough numbers, and certainly representative of the times might bear the bell in 50 years?
Jon
Because software based printed circuit boards have come to dominate the operating (ie motive power/accessories) side of the hobby, post 1980 production has become a disposable product, like all consuner elctronics, like DOS3.3/Win95 software-equipment. And the leading importer/manufacturers (with the exception of Williams) are largely at fault. Out of 50 different operating accessories on our layout 10 out of 50 either failed out of box or within the first 10 operating cycles. One year warranties are a cynical joke because they start at time of purchase, not from when placed in service. A major preoccupation among serious hobbyists is finding qualified repair stations (only Williams has lifetime return to factory warranty). Not only is supply endless, but if it sells, it will be reissued again & again. And there is every reason to believe that downward pressure will continue with the Kader purchase of Williams + Sanda Kan.
None of which is to say that one can not play with, appreciate, accumulate & enjoy toy trains. The era of toy train collectability however is over, like the tulips of history.
Modern day collectables in electric trains are few and far between.
I buy manufactures locomotives that usually ran in the Pacific Northwest, that would include Lionel, Mikes Train House, Weaver, and Williams. My favorite RR is the Spokane Portland and Seattle and its two parent companies the Northern Pacific and Great Northern.
Bill T.
I very much agree...and thank you for the responses! (Good article, also) I guess, instead of a simple answer that would allow anyone to cash in after many years...I am looking just for opinions. To me, quality is foremost. So...Lionel are very well-known, and I assume they will be for many years to come. Obviously, earlier Lionels were heavy and strong, and later ones are more plastic than metal. I don't necessarily want to buy something only for the investment potential. What I want is...a very well-made train that should increase in value, so that I can give it to my daughter a long way down the road, in excellent condition, having only been run once a year or so. Considering these thoughts...what are YOU guys buying that fits this? My local hobby store train guy said that Lionel is still the way to go. I like other opinions as well.
It is hard to predict what will be desirable and what will be profitable. The values and demand changes. Collectibles are not reliable as an investment. I have found that it is best to collect a thing because I like it, rather than hoping that it will be net a great profit.
Here's a link to an article I wrote on collcting on my website:
http://www.thortrains.net/armymen/collectorhelp1.htm
I was unhappy when Marx became collectible because it drove the prices ridiculously high. I don't buy as an inventment. I buy because I like it enough to want to keep it.
Happy New Year!
Well I don't think most people don't consider modern day trains ever being collectibles. I'd say very few new engines will ever be collectible such as Lionels gold plated 700E Hudson and maybe engines made out of brass by 3rd rail, but those engines are very expensive and were PROBABLY made in limited numbers. It really boils down to this, to be a collectible it needs to be in HIGH demand, made in limited numbers, or being rare only because most of the items was damaged and thrown away and lost forever, and most of that item in new condition is rare. I could be wrong about this though but thats my guess.
Give me steam locomotives or give me DEATH!
Berkshire Junction, bringing fourth the cry of the Iron Horse since 1900.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month