While most of my layout is done, I would be interested in a smaller area using such a system. Of course, I 'd like to figure on motive power that fits into my style (something like a NYC hudson). That would be great. I will check on your site from time to time.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
The studs on mine mimic theirs in that the studs do rise. They have to as they are normally well below rail height just above tie level. When you get to a switch you need to raise the studs so that the slider can pass across the running rail. This doesn't mean that it has to rise above rail level. Just equal to it. That's how theirs and mine both work. The slider slides right across the running rail. Just like normal 3 rail switches, those rails are unpowered. There is no wiring complexity as it is still 3 rail and still works exactly like a 3 rail switch does. I have seen all 3 types of Marklin switches and I have yet to see one that has the studs rising above rail level. They all rise up to it.
I don't have any experience with Maerklin pukos, but I have read descriptions that have them rising level, as you say, with the turnout rails and ones that say they get above the rails. In any case, it seems to me that the very slight additional rise that you would need to clear the rails could obviate a bunch of rail gapping and insulating.
Bob Nelson
The section of John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern that used the stud system is the branchline to the mine and it is currently up for sale. There are a few sections of his layout that are for sale for $400. I model in both outside and stud rail and use code 172 rail so that layout was right up my alley. I was given first shot at buying that layout but I have no room for it and can't get it down here anyways. It is for pickup only and is in New York. I am in Houston. The layout also doesn't include any structures but is just scenery and track. The way I am doing the studs is VERY quick and easy to lay down. If you can glue down cork roadbed, you can do this too.
As far as Marklin's system is concerned, mine is done the same way and my studs do rise up at switches as well. This vertical rise is built into the stud stick. I have drawn up the switches in CAD to be used as a template. You print out the template and glue it down. You just glue the cork down to the template and the stud sticks get aligned accordingly. The stud height is designed so that the bottom of the stud stick sits on the table and sticks up between the cork up through the ties. The studs get taller at the switches and equal rail height at their tallest. The end user does not need to try to adjust anything in terms of stud height. It's built in.
Marklin's studs do not rise above rail level and the sliding shoes do run across the rail tops, as do mine. This is the exact same way that standard 3 rail pickup rollers cross these rails. Nothing has changed. The slider does not need to rise above the rails. The rails just can't be powered. With 3 rail, the other outer rail is still powered so there is no issue. If I wanted to power that rail I would have to use a polarity reverser but it's not necessary. Marklin uses hi rail like wheels on their cars with tall flanges. They have a metal contact strip that the wheel flanges ride on next to these rails so when rolling across them, the wheels do get power. This isn't feasible in O scale as this is intended for scale wheels.
Here's one more little thing. I have designed what I am calling the universal frog. It can run BOTH scale and hi rail wheels with no issues and no annoying dipping of the scale wheels into the frog area. Not all hi rail wheels will work on code 148 rail though.
I sell these under the name of Delta Track Systems and have a website which is www.deltatracksystems.com The site is in it's early stages and there isn't much there yet. I just spent a lot of money on a 3 axis CNC for parts manufacturing and am waiting to get it up and running before I start working on other things. I have other product ideas that are not stud related but it all takes time.
Beautiful track work.
Looking forward to seeing the video of the locomotives running down the track in the near future.
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Are you using the Maerklin trick of raising the studs slightly above the running rails, to lift the pickup shoe over the running rails in turnouts and crossings?
FWIW, the last addition John Armstrong made to his outside third rail O scale Canandaigua Southern layout used stud contact.
Many years ago I read that some modelers were making stud rail by driving wire nails through or between their ties and soldering a wire to them under the roadbed. The systems shown here are both much more elegant and much less labor intensive. Well done!
Chuck
balidas I like how it looks a lot. I can see the work and attention to detail. Do you think it would be possible to use atlas o two rail and add studs?
I like how it looks a lot. I can see the work and attention to detail. Do you think it would be possible to use atlas o two rail and add studs?
It is Atlas 2 rail track with stud rails added.
Your track looks amazing. I think you're on to something big.
Joe
I thought I'd update this with some new pics of the displays that I'm working on. The first few pics are of a wooded scene. It is still in progress as there are only 2 mostly complete trees in it. This display uses a prototypical 24" tie spacign which pulls them apart a bit and makes them a bit uneven. It looks really good. All track is painted and weathered. This display just had a wooden crossing added to it and is going to get a small water tank but those aren't shown here.
The other pics are of a small King Post bridge that I made to connect my 2 display pieces together. This way I can have 2 separate displays or join them to show something running over them. This bridge is a bit short on the ends but it's length was determined by the length of a leftover stud stick piece that I had. The studs are painted black on it and don't really stick out all that much. All 2 rail wheels roll on these and all Lionel and MTH 3 rail wheels that I've tried do too. Atlas 3R wheels don't. Anyways, here are the pics...
I sell them (yes legally!) so you could build a layout using them.
Fred.....I'll name my layout and my next dog after you if you send me enough to do a layout. It looks stellar.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Here is the finished piece. You can barely see the studs.
all I can say is... WOW!
There is nothing wrong with good old tubular track! I actually have a love of O-27 for some reason. Stud rail adds complication and when used with a smaller code 148 rail makes nearly all 3R wheels unusable although mostly due to the clearances through the switches. My goal was to make the ultimate 3 rail track and not just to find a way to make stud rail compatible with everything. It isn't for everyone and I don't have any intention right now of building it with tubular rail although never say never. I know most people here probably don't care about this type of track but I just wanted to show off what is possible in 3 rail with a bit of effort. There is nothing wrong with even just setting up a loop of track and playing on the carpet though so I don't want anyone to think that I am pushing this as the only thing to use. That definitely isn't the case. I like all trains. This is just my personal project and what I wanted.
As far as the sliders go, most pickup rollers can use a simple clip on shoe made from brass. There are some pieces that these don't work with though. This way if someone wants to run on standard 3 rail track, all they have to so is remove the slider. Clip it on for stud rail use. Over time it will probably wear out but just install another one. At less than $5 a pop they're pretty cheap.
I am currently finishing up the scenery and detail and will probably have it done this weekend. Here's are some new shots taken in the kitchen tonight. What do you think so far? Yes it's 3 rail.
Thanks. Hopefully it holds together quite well! This technique is actually not mine but rather mostly that of Lance Mindheim who is an incredible HO scale modeller. Some of my other scenic techniques are borrowed from another incredible HO modeller named Pelle Soeborg. I have basically combined their techniques and then do a few little things of my own. If I wanted it to look real then I figured I should use the techniques of those who do it the best.
Here is the work I did today. I masked off everything but the tie plates and rails. The tie plates don't go to the edge of the ties but that is OK as in the real world rust runs down and stains this part of the ties anyways. The part of the process is quite tedious and at one point I started to question my role in the universe. This little 3 foot long display piece took me well over an hour to mask off. Most of the time is spent in the switch as the rest of the track is quite quick and easy to mask.
Once the masking was done, I sprayed it all with Floquil Rail Brown straight from the spray can. I will allow this to dry for a full day before applying the rust colored paint. I feel that too many people are impatient and try to rush everything to quickly. You need to let each layer dry thoroughly before applying the next. What is another couple of days when you want a layout that last for years or decades? Unfortunately that next step with Floquil Rust won't involve a spray can as they don't sell that paint in spray form. I may do another type of wash or I may break out the airbrush. I don't want to do that though as I want people to see what is possible without one. You don't need an airbrush to do beautiful work. Anyways here are a couple of pictures of the Rail Brown. I'll continue the next step tomorrow evening sometime. Hopefully. It is a holiday weekend you know!
Fred......this is beautiful work. How well does this hold together over time?
I have continued with the painting process. I have done 2 layers of a wash of mostly paint thinner with burnt umber artist oil color. I wait at least a full day between washes as oil colors are a bit slow to dry. Fortunately paint thinner dries fairly quickly. The washes combined with the light gray base coat really allow the molded in detail of the track to show up really well. The slight inconsistency is also more realistic looking than just a solid color. Next up is to mask off the ties and paint the tie plates and rails with Floquil Rail Brown and thendust it with Floquil Rust. Then it's off to ground cover and ballast. More to come...
Here are a couple of in progress shots during painting. I use a combination of techniques from the two great modellers of Lance Mindheim and Pelle Soeborg. I start out by painting all of the track a light gray that doesn't contain any blue. Model Master Light gray in this case. I even paint over the rails. I am not coating the tops of the rails with any oil as the next step involves oil based paint. The ground is painted an earth like tone. In this case it is latex based Mocha but any dark tan to light brown tone will work fine. I will apply various ground cover in layers on top of this. I'll post more details as I get to those steps. It will all make sense when I'm done.
There are a number of ways to do the pickup sliders. Some pickups work fine with just a clip on shoe such as lighted cabooses or passenger cars and some engines. Others however don't work so well due to space constraints such as my MTH SD70ACe or a couple of postwar Lionel engines. They require a different technique. The pickup rollers aren't all the same size between pieces either so one size does not fit all. So far I have built 3 different styles (not sizes) but they hardly cover every type. In some instances the best way to tackle things is to remove the factory rollers and completely replace them. In rare cases such as on some steam engines, the best method may be to fabricate and attach one under the tender. The pickup issue is definitely the biggest hurdle in this but fortunately they aren't hard to build out of brass.
This display piece that I am showing pictures of will have a relay shed next to the tracks with a 9V battery hidden in it wired to the track. I will set a lighted caboose on it for display that can be rolled back and forth. That caboose uses a simple clip on shoe. It also shows that there is no ticking sound across the studs. I had to figure out a stud profile that minimized this as well as a minimum length and thickness slider to eliminate it.
The whole point of this is to stay with 3 rails and not 2. I don't own enough equipment to keep me in 3 rail as opposed to 2 but I just like the electrical simplicity of 3 rail and the little wiring tricks that you can do without the need to any extra electronics. My home layout is a small work in progress outside 3rd rail layout using all hand laid track just because I've always had a nostalgia for it. I just like 3 rail but I also like realism. Then again just to be a bit more different, I also like to run DCC on converted engines so I don't exactly do anything the easy way.
Or, there's always American Flyer...
Fred,
Pretty cool. I have followed several folks messing with stud rail over the years. It is interesting to me.
How are you planning to build the shoe for the bottom of the loco? One attempt I followed several years ago made a shoe that clipped onto the existing rollers on the loco, but then the person quite posting.
Good luck!
Regards, Roy
It's been a while but I've been hard at work on this and have even formed a company around it. Here are a few updated pictures. The first is of the stud sticks and an assembly for an Atlas #5 switch.
This is a photo of just the switch assembly. It it bolted together with #1 bolts and nuts. Although I have brass pieces shown here, the finished versions have stainless. This is setup as a right hand switch but to make a left hand just requires bolting the diverging strip on the other side. The bolt also provides a convenient place to attach a feeder wire.
This is a shot of the stud sticks installed between the roadbed.
A different view. Although a bit hard to notice, the studs get taller as the approach the center of the switch and are lower profile when on straight track.
Here are a couple of views of the stud sticks installed under the Atlas #5 switch.
Here is how adjoining sticks attach to each other. As shown I just have one bent next to the other with a very tight fit in the roadbed. I cut the studs off of the one that is bent so that there are not studs next to each other. Although hard to see the top leg studs are not cut so you see 2 side by side but the bottom is cut so only 1 row is shown. I am having a bit of a hard time conveying this in a way that is decently clear. An alternative method would be to drill a small hole through them and bolt them together.
I am currently working on ballasting and detailing this display piece. These are designed to work with Atlas 2R flextrack and switches. 3R wheels will run on the track but not the switches. My next project is to build a switch that both wheels will work on. This needs to get done first. When I get more pictures this week, I'll show it off. It looks really good when detailed.
Fred
Interesting concept. How are you connecting all of the studs together? Pins soldered in a plate? 2-56 or 4-40 screws threaded through a plate?
Your saying then the slid picking up power on middle rail (studs) is simular to the slide on my old Marx and Lionel? Also what is the scale I'm using, I thought it was 1/48? Is your rail one long piece, like 10', you cut and place two 1/14" apart? I'm using some old track that came with the two trains, 027 I think, and also bought some new 027 42" radius. Is there any Poto-type rail that is really 3 rail. As you can tell I'm very new, but reading all I can.
thinks so much
Don't confuse the guy! 1-1/4" is what American O gauge is and what Lionel and Marx are/were so that makes this gauge "correct". Those crazy Europeans and their technically correct ways!
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