I use synthetics, and I lube some rollers. No problems, and the cost is bare-bones compared to "hobby specific" products. I do a lot of maintenance, due to numbers & hours, not mechanical issues.
Rob
Kinda makes ya wonder if we shouldn't be using synthetic oil and/or grease for our engines. If they would reduce the friction, it would be a good thing.
BTW, someone made a comment about lubing the pickup rollers. IMHO, you should always lube the pickup rollers, and I will tell you for sure that engine oil will not get gummy on these rollers.
Bruce Baker
5W-20 is 5 "weight" oil that, due to additives, holds the same properties as 20W oil at high temps. Doesn't get thicker. Take it from a retired fleet manager of over 9K vehicles of all types.
Interesting fact: Ran a test on 1 ton courier vans. Amzoil, changed filters and added one quart every 5K and sent an oil sample to lab. At 75 K, lab said still did not need to change oil. Why didn't we go with all of the fleet using Amzoil? Could not justify the price when you get filters and oil on contract at a "steal". It made me a believer in synthetic oils and grease. Run it in my 2 cycle high performance outboard [mix with fuel and in lower unit]. Picked up 500 RPMs.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
The EP characteristic of lubes is very important on sliding surfaces - worms especially on the models. You want to be sure the lubricant is present as a barrier between meeting metal parts. Newer synthetics w/ molybdenum formulas would be ideal for trains used a lot, or stored for years at a time or never serviced for decades. The film from these lubes is super slippery and clings to the surfaces, even if appearing dry in many cases.
I have always like the Lucas red lithium grease since first using it, and again each time I look at equipment that was serviced years ago with Red 'N Tacky #2.
Servoguy is spot on in his statements about the different types of friction. Static friction is higher than sliding friction and viscous friction is speed dependant.
The MoS2 additive has molyibdnium and sulfer - both are common additives to improve the extreme pressure performance of a lube. Other common EP additives are zinc, chlorine, and lithium. As a sidebar type comment, modern automative engine oils have greatly reduced the amount of zinc based additives. This is not good news for older engines with non-roller valve tappets. A better choice would be oils designed for diesel engines such as the Shell Rotilla series which have a better EP additive package.
I was working from memory in my comments about the way multi-viscosity oils work. I'll have to do a little research and refresh my memory.
I've got some more lube trials coming up at work this month. While I'm working with the various vendor reps., I'll discuss the subjects brought up in this thread and get their input.
Interesting discussion on this thread.
It is still my opinion that the amount of lube is just as important as the type - too little is bad, and too much is bad.
lionelsoniWhat I thought you wrote and what I thought I read: "I also find it curious that folks think automotive lubricants are appropriate for toy trains. I don't need to check my inventory to know that none of my trains have internal combustion engines, nor are they exposed to the temperature extremes that a car or truck would be." Why curious? If a particular lubricant happens to have a property that is desirable in an automobile and not harmful in a toy train, that alone would not disqualify it for toy-train use to my mind
So, where does it say that motor oil is inappropriate? I am still curious as to the reasoning behind using automtoive oil. What are those desireable properities? (Vapor pressure?)It seems that 8ntruck verified most, if not all of my comments regarding lubrication. Servoguy informed us that slip rings are lubricated, but we don't know whether those slup rings are metal on metal, or graphite/carbon brushes on metal. HRIN confirmed that at least some slot car guys tear down their motors after every race, so the longer term effects of lubricating the brushes are negated.
servoguy BTW, I often see dried grease caked on the wheels of cars. I am sure this is what is left of the old Lionel lube they used to sell in tubes. I wouldn't use this stuff on an engine if you paid me. Maybe it is a good thing that I couldn't get any of it back in the 50s and 60s.
IMHO, the black stuff that is often found caked on car wheels probably does have some grease mixed into it. I think the "cake" is a mixture of whatever grease / oil that the owner used on their trains that got onto the wheel treads and/or tracks, mixed with dust/dirt, and built up.
Most people have a tendancy to over lubricate.
One more quick thought. The only motors I have seen with worn out bearings have had NO lubriction. I recently replaced the motor in a 671 that had a lot of miles, and one of the motor bearings was very loose. There was no sign of any oil or grease.
I talked to Frank some months ago about the viscosity of greases. The viscosity of a grease is determined by the viscosity of the oil that was used to make the grease. The thickener used does not change the viscosity. This was a surprise to me.
5W-20 has a lower viscosity at high temperatures than it does at low temperatures. The viscosity curve always has a slope similar to a single viscosity oil, but it doesn't change as fast with temperature. The temperature span where the 5 and 20 numbers are measured is surprisingly narrow. I don't remember what the two temperatures are, but I was surprised how close together they are.
Worm gears not nearly as efficient as spur or helical gears. Most commercial worm gear boxes have an efficiency near 50%, while helical boxes will be above 90%. The higher the ratio of the worm box, the lower the efficiency. This low efficiency results in a lot of heat. Dow Corning makes an oil additive that has a lot of MoS2 in it, and it will significantly improve the efficiency of a gearbox. I have used this stuff in automobile engines, and it has saved me a couple of cams.
Use of 80 or 90 weight oil in a worm drive of a toy locomotive is probably not a good idea. These oils are extremely viscous, and will show an increasing friction drag with speed. While I am on the subject, let me say a few words about friction. There are two types of friction: viscous and coulomb. Viscous friction is velocity dependent, and is zero at zero velocity and increases linearly with velocity. Coulomb friction nominally is constant independent of velocity. That is why when you increase the speed of a toy train, the voltage goes up but the current stays almost constant. There is very little viscous friction in a toy train. It is almost all coulomb friction. Coulomb friction usually displays the characteristic that near zero velocity, it increases. This is what makes a locomotive difficult to start and why you usually have to give it a little more voltage to get it started. This is the problem I was trying to solve when I oiled the commutator on the 2046, and it did drastically improve the starting friction. This type of friction is sometimes called stick-slip friction. Ball bearings, by the way, have a lower static friction than running friction. The zero velocity friction looks more like a stiff spring than sliding friction.
Bruce
In a worm drive, the contact between the worm and the spur gear is mostly sliding contact, but there is still the rolling motion of spur gears. The additional sliding contact of the gear faces and the small contact area - usually close to a line across the gear tooth - makes the extreme pressure performance of the lube even more important to mantaining a film of lube. The sliding contact will also make a worm gear run slightly hotter than a spur gear. Grease is the preferred lube here. If you must use oil, it will need to be in the 80W to 90W range.
I do not have any of the 50's vintage dual motor worm drive locomotives, but I have read about the need to open the gear box for cleaning and re-greasing. I suspect that over time, the slightly increased operating temperature of the worm gear will break down the factory grease. For our trains, some of the modern synthetic greases or a conventional 90W differential oil (not posi-traction oils, as they are loaded with modifiers to make the clutches work) might be good choices here and improvements over the original 1950's Lionel grease.
Remember, too much lube attracts dust and dirt, which will cause wear. Abraisive wear is the enemy of worm drives, so like a famous hair product form the past, 'a little dab'ill do ya'.
I think I've just shown my age!
On the contrary, I think you've shed considerable light. Do you have anything to say about worm drives, which seem to me to resemble bearings more than spur gears as far as lubrication is concerned?
After I typed that question, I remembered an incident early in my engineering career. I was working at McDonald Observatory on what was then their brand-new 107-inch telescope. The polar-axis used a huge, very precisely finished worm drive, which was supposed to be accurate enough to tell the telescope position to something like arc-seconds from the angle of the worm. Somebody goofed in the lubricant selection and galling ruined the whole scheme. They were able to polish the parts to where they would move the telescope (with the right lubricant); but the precise positioning was lost. They wound up using (to this day, as far as I know) an inferior system driven directly by the telescope. (P.S. I was working on electrical stuff and had nothing to do with the mechanical part.)
Bob Nelson
Just a reference data point here. My #210 Alco and a 0-4-0 switcher were maintained with 3 in 1 oil and late 1950's Lionel grease through the mid 70's when they went into storage. When I woke them up again about three years ago, they ran right out of the box.
One of my longer running projects at work has been working with lube suppliers on developing a synthetic metal forming lube to use in our press forming operation. Another lube related project was aimed at reducing the wear and temperature in the pitman bearings in my 3000 and 4000 ton presses. I've learned a thing or two about lubes while working through these projects.
The whole purpose of a lubricant is to prevent metal to metal (or in some of our cases , plastic to plastic) contact. Allowing metal to metal contact causes localized hot spots on a microscopic scale. These hot spots are hot enough to momentarily weld the two moving parts together. This starts a cycle of increasing surface roughness that welds more spots, creating more heat, that welds more spots, etc., etc. A lube failure like this on a pitman bearing in one of my presses will cause a $40,000 repair bill and cause 15 to 20 days of press downtime, which is 15 to 20 days of lost production.
In general, the bearings in our trains are very lightly loaded. They are more likely to wear out because of contamination by dirt and dust than metal to metal wear. A light oil is sufficient in the plain axle and armeture bearings to prevent the metal to metal contace. Too much oil in these bearings can attract dirt and contribute to bearing contamination and wear. After a certain point, increasing the viscosity, or 'weight' of the oil will actually increase the torque required to turn the shaft in the bushing. Too low a viscosity, and the oil film between the shaft and bearing will break down and allow matal to metal contact.
Multi viscosity engine oils are designed to increase viscosity with increasing temperatures. A 5W20 oil will act like a straight 5W oil on a crisp 5 degree snowzhio morning, allowing eaiser cranking, but will thicken up to a 20W as the engine comes up to operating temperature. There are other additives in the oil to modify its extreme pressure properties, resist the combustion by-products in the engine, and provide rust resistance, etc., etc. As our trains do not run as hot as an automotive engine, 5W20 is a fancy 5W oil when used on trains.
Gears and grease are slightly different than the plain bearings. By design, gears transfer the load from gear to gear in a rolling contact. That is to say that the gear teeth have a shape so that roll across each other as each tooth engages then disengages. The typical failure mode of gears are overloading (sheared teeth), spalling (pitting of the gear teeth), and wear by abrasive contamination. Because of the small area of the tooth that carries the load, a lube is needed that resists extreme pressure and still maintains an adequate layer of lubrication between the gear teeth. Greases are designed for applications requiring extreme pressure performance. Again, the gear trains in our trains are not very highly loaded, so most light greases will work. The thing to watch is the additives used to 'thicken' the oil into grease and the chemical base of the extreme pressure additives. Some of these are not friendly to plastics. We need to maks sure the grease is compatable with plastic. The lighter the grease, the less friction, but the easier it will get thrown off of the gears.
Like oil, too much grease will attract dirt and start to gum things up.
Oils will evaporate out of grease. The rate that the oil evaporates depends on many things - the 'thickening' agent, the base oil, the operating temperature, the storage temperature, etc, etc. Since greases in our train application are thin films on exposed gears, they are also exposed to other chemicals used around the layout. Greases do weird things when mixed with chemicals they were not designed to work with. The usual result is caking or liquidation.
On the original subject of lubricating the commiutator, I'll put my two cents worth in, saying that the typical brushes are some sort of graphite material that is inherently low in friction and should not need additional lubrication. I will, however, yield to the electrical guys as to what is best, since the main function of these components is to transfer electrical current between moving ans stationart parts.
In general, Lionel reccomends light oil on plain bearings and light grease on gear trains. Of course, the magical properties are contained in the Lionel service kit, which probably has a pretty good margin - we must remember that Lionel is a business who's goal is to turn a profit.
Like somebody said, if your maintenance routine and choice of supplies is working, stay with it. On the other hand, if you are doing work for others and are being paid for it, you might be better off following the manufacturer's reccomendations.
I've rambled on a bit here. I hope I haven't confused things any.
Let me go back and state why I chose 5W-20 engine oil in the first place. I chose it because it has a low vapor pressure. This means in evaporates very slowly, and this property makes it desirable because if I use this oil it will not become gummy or get hard like greases always do. I don't use grease and light machine oils (like 3 in 1) because they invariably get hard or gummy. I don't think there is any serious toxicity problem with engine oil. The fact that it has a low vapor pressure would indicate that the vapors are so slight that there should be no toxicity problem. I have worked on cars and gotten engine oil on my hands for 53 years with no known problems. I never worked on cars professionally, so I never had the exposure that a mechanic would have had. There are other things which a mechanic is exposed to that could also have caused an allergic reaction. The solvents used to clean parts are one possibility.
Frank recommended an oil with lower vapor pressure than automotive oils, and that is turbine oil. Since I don't have a ready source of turbine oil, and the AutoZone store is on the corner, I elected to stick with the automotive oil. The 2025 that I lubed with 20W-40 in 1965 validates my choice of lubricants.
BTW, I often see dried grease caked on the wheels of cars. I am sure this is what is left of the old Lionel lube they used to sell in tubes. I wouldn't use this stuff on an engine if you paid me. Maybe it is a good thing that I couldn't get any of it back in the 50s and 60s.
If you want to compare the vapor pressure of engine oils with various greases, you will need to get the SAE spec sheets on the oil and get a similar spec sheet from the grease manufacturer.
I agree with cwburfle. Automotive oils do have additives, and I do not know what effect they may have on my train, plastics or even my layout. I only know that I worked on engines all my life and I would not like it on my layout. I understand that there shouldn’t be very much oil to be concerned about, but its enough that I can immediately smell the difference.
One of my coworkers ended up some sort of skin problem from years of working with engine oil. He now has to use a prescription hand lotion and wear gloves all the time. He can no longer be exposed to engine oil and had to change fields.
Now I do not know if the other hobby lubricants have the same additives or not, but there must be something different if I can smell it. I guess one should check the MSDS and make a comparison.
What I thought you wrote and what I thought I read: "I also find it curious that folks think automotive lubricants are appropriate for toy trains. I don't need to check my inventory to know that none of my trains have internal combustion engines, nor are they exposed to the temperature extremes that a car or truck would be." Why curious? If a particular lubricant happens to have a property that is desirable in an automobile and not harmful in a toy train, that alone would not disqualify it for toy-train use to my mind. I think that our lubricants should be judged by how well they perform in the toy-train application and not by their performance, whether good or bad, in automobiles or spacecraft, and that they should be judged by unbiased persons knowledgable in the field, which leaves me and the manufacturers' advertising departments out.
What you thought you wrote: "The properites that are desireable in automotive lubricants are not necessarily desireable for toy trains." This is a reasonable statement that I can agree with, that admits the possibility that automotive lubricants might be useful for toy trains. I personally don't know any reasons why they would or would not be.
lionelsoniMy point was that it is fallacious to imagine that, because a product is used for one purpose, it is inappropriate for another. You seemed to argue that, for example, automotive grease should not be used on toy trains because they lack internal-combustion engines. I was trying to show that the same kind of invalid argument can be used against LaBelle.
If using automotive lubricants (grease or oil) float your boat, go for it. The properites that are desireable in automotive lubricants are not necessarily desireable for toy trains. (which is what I wrote, not what you thought you read) Automobile engine oils have detergents in them. Are these detergents desireable for a toy train? If so, why?Want to risk having these oils/grease get on your clothing, rugs, etc, and staining them? Go for it. I don't want it on my stuff, and I don't want a call from a customer about the products that I used staining something in their home.Even if I am working on an engine thats only worth 10-15 dollars, let alone one that is worth hundreds, I am not about to worry about whether the oil I'm using cost a tenth of one cent, or a dime. (And I doubt I've ever used a dime's worth of lubricant on a single piece in one maintenance cycle)
Google "Many of the LaBelle Lubricants" to see the identical claim on several different web sites selling LaBelle. I have little doubt that LaBelle supplied that wording to their distributors.
My point was that it is fallacious to imagine that, because a product is used for one purpose, it is inappropriate for another. You seemed to argue that, for example, automotive grease should not be used on toy trains because they lack internal-combustion engines. I was trying to show that the same kind of invalid argument can be used against LaBelle.
Texas Pete I'm pretty sure that the overpriced toy-train specific lubricants are merely relabeled and repackaged products that were originally intended for other uses. Pete
I'm pretty sure that the overpriced toy-train specific lubricants are merely relabeled and repackaged products that were originally intended for other uses.
Pete
I’ve always suspected this myself and I know it to be true of other products used in scenery.
I have been using Marvel Air Tool Oil on my HO engines for many years. I've inadvertently gotten some on an occasional commutator with absolutely no perceivable ill effects of any kind. Now that I'm into three-rail O gauge I continue to use this product along with Lucas Heavy Duty Air Tool Oil where a slightly heavier lube might be beneficial, such as on locomotive axles. Air tool oils contain rust inhibitors and they are rubber and plastic compatible, pretty much meeting the requirements of a toy train lube. I'm pretty sure that the overpriced toy-train specific lubricants are merely relabeled and repackaged products that were originally intended for other uses.
"You can’t study the darkness by flooding it with light." - Edward Abbey -
servoguyWhen I talked to Frank, he mentioned that the manufacturers of slip ring assemblies lubricate the slip rings. Slip rings are used to bring electrical power and signals through a rotary joint. These devices usually use gold plated rings and brushes. They are also quite expensive, and the manufacturers have spent considerable engineering time to make sure the designs are long lived. With the right lubricant, they can be used in space applications.
I am not 100 percent clear on the information your friend Frank provided.Do these slip ring assembly have gold plated metal brushes, or are they graphite / carbon?If they are gold plated metal, then I would expect that some sort of lubricant would be deisrable. Graphite / carbon brushes are supposed to be self lubricating. (They are available in various compositions with properties that vary according to the application) I did a quick Google on slip rings. It seems that at least some of them have metal brushes, either gold, or sliver plated. The first site I visited even had mercury (liquid) "brushes". Some of the sites indicated that their slip ring assemblies were sealed, to keep dust / dirt from fouling the assembly, as some of us have commented about. Unless one is doing repairs for other people, it really doesn't matter to anybody else how you maintain your trains. If a particular technique works, that's great..
lionelsoni"Many of the LaBelle Lubricants recommended for model railroaders are exactly the same as used by NASA in the space program." I find it curious that one would think that space-program lubricants are appropriate for toy trains. None of my trains have rocket engines, nor are they exposed to the temperature extremes, vacuum, and radiation that a spacecraft would be.
Well Bob, since you are lampooning my comment, perhaps you'd like to share the source of your quote about LaBelle Lubricants. It didn't come from me, nor do I see it elsewhere in the thread. Are you trying to imply that I saw that tripe, and use LaBelle products because of it?
Here is the site that johnjay2 spoke of http://www.aerocarlubricants.com/
Some competitive RC racers will disassemble their motors after every 5 minute heat (race) and clean and re lube all parts. While apart they may even lightly cut the comm on a lathe with a diamond bit. Then dyno tune with different brushes, change spring rates, align brush hoods and zap the can magnets. Would they use comm drops to try and get an edge... of course. I had a recipe for making my own go fast comm drops.
Just trying to put things in perspective of how comm drops have been used in other hobbies. It would be difficult to know what drops are safe in the long run of 10-20 years because in my application the motors were highly maintained. And after the commutators are worn down just a little they are just tossed out or given away.
I talked with my friend Frank last night who is an expert on lubricants among other things. He has a degree in Mechanical Engineering and 40+ years of experience with the design, building, and test of precision mechanical devices. Some of these devices were for use in space and some for use on aircraft and some for use on ground vehicles. Our experience with lubricants is similar except he is not as enthusiastic about WD-40 as I am.
We both agree that use of grease is a bad idea. The greases have light oils in them, and the vapor pressure of the oil is high enough that over time the oils evaporate leaving behind the clay or whatever was used to make the oil into a grease. More on this later.
We also agree that the use of light oils like 3 in 1 is a bad idea, as these oils also have comonents that have a high vapor pressure, and when these components evaporate you have a gummy mess. This is the reason I chose automotive engine oil. It has a low vapor pressure and so doesn't evaporate very fast and so doesn't become gummy.
I have two data points to emphasize the above. I bought a 736 engine and tender about a year ago. It was locked up solid. I took it apart and found some reddish-brown grease that had turned to stone. I soaked it down with WD-40 to loosen and remove the grease. I have not lubed it with oil yet as I am not running it right now, but when I checked it a few weeks ago, the engine was still very free.
I took a 2025 out of the box this week that has not been run since 1965. I lubed it with 20W-40 Valvoline engine oil in 1965. I remember this very well because I was using 20W40 oil in an old Chevy I had and used the same oil in the oil can, and I lubed everything with the oil can. The engine was still free and ran well when I put it on the track. I am sure there was some oil on the commutator, but at that time I was not lubing the commutators on purpose. The oil that I could see on the gears and bearings still looked OK. Nothing was gummed up.
When I talked to Frank, he mentioned that the manufacturers of slip ring assemblies lubricate the slip rings. Slip rings are used to bring electrical power and signals through a rotary joint. These devices usually use gold plated rings and brushes. They are also quite expensive, and the manufacturers have spent considerable engineering time to make sure the designs are long lived. With the right lubricant, they can be used in space applications.
Space applications are interesting because in space the low vacuum causes oils to evaporate quickly. What might take years on the ground may take only minutes or days in space. I have done some vacuum chamber work about 25 years ago, and in a vacuum chamber conventional oils disappear in minutes.
Stories about commutators being fouled by oil or grease are not much value unless something is known about the oil or grease that did the fouling. In the case of the 2025 that I have, I know exactly what was used to lube the engine, and that was 44 years ago. In the case of the 736, I don't know what kind of grease was used to lube the engine, but it got hard which was the expected result.
Any recommendations by a seller of lube that it is appropriate for a certain application (like toy trains) without any engineering data to support the claim, is just hype and is of no value as far as I am concerned.
The bottom line here is that I am going to continue to use engine oil to lube my trains because it has the properties I feel important, namely a very low vapor pressure. The one test article I have, the 2025, verifies that this is a good decision.
Atlas makes a conductive lube for model trains and they claim you can lube the brushes and commutator. I was silly enough to try it once and quickly ended up with a dirty armature and brushes. I also tried lubing the rollers and they quickly became gummed up. Even a small drop of oil can work its way down the armature shaft and dirty up the commutator. Since I do not particularly like tearing down locomotives to clean them I will stick with the way we have always done it.
Roger
"Many of the LaBelle Lubricants recommended for model railroaders are exactly the same as used by NASA in the space program." I find it curious that one would think that space-program lubricants are appropriate for toy trains. None of my trains have rocket engines, nor are they exposed to the temperature extremes, vacuum, and radiation that a spacecraft would be.
I think that lubricants need to be looked at objectively by engineers knowledgeable in that field. Unfortunately, all we seem to have is advertising copy from sellers of expensive boutique quantities of greases and oils that they allege are somehow peculiarly suitable for toy trains, while incidentally curing every other squeaky wheel: "LaBelle 102...Exposed gear boxes on all sorts of Household items, squeaky door hinges, Riding toys, musical instrument keys, mechanical toys of all types." These products may be somehow more suitable for trains than ordinary general-purpose lubricants; but I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that they are the general-purpose lubricants, repackaged and marked up.
servoguy If you want, I can run this by two guys I work with that are experts on lubricants. I am oiling all the commutators on my engines, and so far I don't have a problem.
If you want, I can run this by two guys I work with that are experts on lubricants. I am oiling all the commutators on my engines, and so far I don't have a problem.
Rather than asking an expert on lubricants, ask an expert on motor / generators.
As an experiment, I tried using one of the Caig Labs moving contact lubricants on a motor during a recent service. (Caig suggested using it on commutators) I put on a very light coat, as in applying the lub, and removing whatever would come off with a clean rag. In theory, the coat was as light as could be. The engine ran nicely when the work was first done, but after letting the locomotive sit for a month or so, the engine wouldn't run right, and had to be cleaned. I did a search for motor brush lubricant, and did come up with some hits for products that are targeted towards slot car people. Maybe they work. Maybe slotcar people clean their motors before every race. The material that the brushes are made from already have lubricating properties. I think that's good enough for me, or for anybody who has a train serviced by me. I don't want people to come back with problems. When a train leaves my bench, it has to be right the first time. I also find it curious that folks think automotive lubricants are appropriate for toy trains. I don't need to check my inventory to know that none of my trains have internal combustion engines, nor are they exposed to the temperature extremes that a car or truck would be. I use Labelle lubricants, along with several products from Caig Labs.
Hello folks
Its an interesting thought so I just did a google search on this question and found a website that sells a lube product for model trains for this purpose . Listed below is there description of the product and the benefits..its listed under there products for model trains .The website is aerocar.com . Im not posting this as an advetrisment ,just as a piont of referance that the benefits spoke of earlier in this thread are being realised and marketed.
":Cleans and lubricates commutators and brushes. Enhances performance and extends brush life. it Has been found to reduce amp draw by as much as 50%. Improves current flow through brushes to the commutator. Will enhance the capabilities of DCC operations.
lionelsoni Oiling the commutator or brushes has been advocated recently on the forum. It is claimed to reduce friction and not to be harmful. I am skeptical. The 2037 I was running under the Christmas tree got balky and finally stopped running entirely today. I opened it up and found sticky stuff on the commutator and brushes. The brush springs would not move the brushes within their tubes. I had bought the motor a few years ago, but ran the locomotive very little until this Christmas. I cleaned commutator and brushes with an eraser and oiled and greased elsewhere; and it runs fine now.
Oiling the commutator or brushes has been advocated recently on the forum. It is claimed to reduce friction and not to be harmful. I am skeptical. The 2037 I was running under the Christmas tree got balky and finally stopped running entirely today. I opened it up and found sticky stuff on the commutator and brushes. The brush springs would not move the brushes within their tubes. I had bought the motor a few years ago, but ran the locomotive very little until this Christmas. I cleaned commutator and brushes with an eraser and oiled and greased elsewhere; and it runs fine now.
Bob, sure beats the heck out of me. For years we have cleaned and shinned the commutator, cleaned out the sections between the them and I even lightly emory clothed the end of the brushes. Now we hear this. Might be something new for us "old dogs".
I wouldn't expect this to be settled anytime soon.
RC car racers have fought about "comm drops" and there effectiveness for the last 20 years. Now there is not as much talk about it because the RC hobby has mostly moved to "brushless" motors.
My arsenal of RC car motors and tuning equipment does not include commutator drops. I would not expect to be using any oil or comm drops on my trains commutators anytime soon.
I would add a drop of oil where needed but not on the commutator or brush faces. Like everything else just one guys 2 cents.
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