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What does “Heavy weight” mean?

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Posted by SleeperN06 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 11:07 PM
LL675
The postwar 2400 series cars look good behind my 2037. The LTI 16000 cars would be lighter, and plenty are out there.
It looks like I’m going to end up with the LTI 16000 cars. I spent hours looking for a decent set of passenger cars and everything I like is over $300. The one I really want is $400. I hate to send that much on cars when my Loco is only worth $50,

Oh well maybe later.

Thanks, JohnnyB
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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, December 27, 2009 10:18 PM

They could have either 4- or 6-wheel trucks, depending on the car's weight and the railroad's axle-loading limit.

Bob Nelson

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Posted by SleeperN06 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 9:51 PM

Bill H.

 I believe, HW passenger cars all rode on 6 wheel trucks...

Now that you mentioned that, I remember asking a question about 6 wheel trucks years ago, but I had forgotten all about it..

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Posted by Bill H. on Sunday, December 27, 2009 9:44 PM

 I believe, HW passenger cars all rode on 6 wheel trucks...

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Posted by LL675 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:45 PM

 

The postwar 2400 series cars look good behind my 2037. The LTI 16000 cars would be lighter, and plenty are out there.

Dave

It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody  from Toy Story)

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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, December 27, 2009 6:56 PM

The structure was so massive that I doubt that there was much flexing.  Here [John H. White, Jr., The American Railroad Passenger Car, p. 153] is a description of the floor:

Floor construction also underwent a radical change with the coming of the steel car.  The wooden car was largely eliminated, except in baggage cars and Canadian cars.  Most American roads felt that wood was a fire and health hazard and adopted various forms of thin concrete floors....In constructing them, a corrugated pressed metal or wire mesh was first laid down.  The metal was generally galvanized.  Over this, composition mortar composed of magnesium or asbestos and cement was poured in a layer 3/4 inch thick....

 

Bob Nelson

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Posted by EIS2 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 6:20 PM

lionelsoni
under the center of the concrete floor

I am surprised they would use concrete on a flexing floor.

Earl

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Posted by SleeperN06 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:03 PM

Hey thanks, that’s very interesting. I like learning about this stuff.

What O-scale passenger cars would you suggest to run with my Lionel 2037 steamer?

I realize that I can NOT get obsessed with prototyping, but I would like to at least be in the ball park. I did not pay very much for the 2037 and I don’t want to spend too much on the cars, but I want a set of at least 4 passenger cars.

I’ve already spent way too much, too soon on my new O-scale hobby and I’m still hearing about how much I’ve already spent on my N-scale layout last year.

 

Thanks, JohnnyB
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Posted by martinden on Sunday, December 27, 2009 4:24 PM

Some historical context might help here. The earliest passenger cars were constructed of wood; in the latter part of the 19th century, steel was added for reinforcing. After the turn of the century, safety concerns in general, and fire concerns in particular (esp. in the tunnels under the Hudson River) led to the all-steel car. These were much heavier than the preceding composite cars. In the '30s, when streamliners came into the picture, they were much lighter than the steel cars in general use. By the late 1930s, a number of railroads were using "lightweight" streamlined cars for their crack limiteds. The older steel cars thus became "heavyweights." Bob has described their characteristics, though they were the dominant type of passenger car long after 1930. Probably until the late 1940s anyway, when railroads were buying large numbers of streamlined cars and the suppliers were finally able to catch up to demand. Heavyweights remained in widespread use on secondary trains at least though the '50s; a few railroads used them to the end of (their) passenger service, owning no lightweights at all.

In Lionel-land, heavyweights (or at least a certain kind of heavyweights) are usually referred to as "Madison" cars (also sometimes called "Irvington" cars). This stems from the earliest Lionel pre-war and postwar cars, which carried Madison and Irvington names. Some people object to these terms; personally, I tend to refer to the original Lionel cars, and Lionel's modern reproductions of them, as well as Williams reproductions, and close copies from other manufactuers, as "Madison" cars, but cars that are longer and more specifically scale models of actual heavyweights, as "heavyweights." (Lionel's cars are probably most like Pennsy P70 coaches riding on six-wheel trucks -- they're not really models of any of the common types of heavyweight prototype cars.) Note also that in protoypical terms, none of these cars are actually referred to as "Madison" or "Irvington" cars, nor are these expressions used in HO or other scale circles (except occasionally by people with backgrounds in three-rail O gauge).

Added: I should have also mentioned that in the early ''70s Lionel introduced a line of heavyweight-type cars that were smaller than the traditional Madison cars. They're often referred to as (surprise!) "baby Madisons." Initially these came with four-wheel trucks and non-operating couplers (that had trouble staying coupled over rough trackwork); later Lionel gave them six-wheel trucks and operating couplers. These cars come in standard coach, baggage, observation, and diner styles, and have been offered in a number of roadnames, starting with the Milwaukee and Pennsy, and also including the B&O, Blue Comet, Chessie Steam Special, Wabash, and New York Central, among others. I believe these are the cars in the Polar Express set.

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Posted by SleeperN06 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:12 PM
Thanks, I thought it might have something to do with era.  I’ve heard people mentioning it and just never asked. I only modeled modern stuff, but then I noticed that the Lionel Polar Express was listed as a Heavyweight.
Thanks, JohnnyB
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Posted by lionelsoni on Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:59 PM

Heavyweights were the dominant style from about 1910 to 1930.  They had a clerestory roof, a riveted steel body, and a massive steel beam running under the center of the concrete floor,

Bob Nelson

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What does “Heavy weight” mean?
Posted by SleeperN06 on Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:28 PM

I’m looking for some more passenger cars to make up a 5th train and I keep running into the term “Heavy weight”.  What does that mean?

Thanks, JohnnyB

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