Sluggish or Not? PW Lionel 2037 Loco

[Nish]

I am trying to tune up my recently acquired 2037 Loco. It's running fairly well, though I am concerned that it may be using too much voltage. I'm using the U - A connection on a 1033, and the voltage output at the track measures 5-15 volts on the meter. It takes almost 10 volts to start. It will barely move if I use the U-B posts. It just doesn't make sense that a little engine like a 2037 should need that much juice just to run 4 cars around the tree. FYI- Transformer is good. I've specifically checked voltage, whistle controller spring, posts, and speed control contact. No whistle tender is being used. Smoke unit is bad, but not shorting out. No binding in the drivers, commutator was cleaned, brushes dressed, brush springs are OK, headlight OK. No bad connections. The only symptom I can find is that after running the train for about an hour, I felt for hot spots and the rollers were really hot. There is no pitting, and no evidence on the track or rollers of excessive arcing.

[lionelsoni]

This is quite a coincidence.  I also have a 2037 running around the tree, powered by a 1033 and pulling a non-whistle tender and 4 cars, including a lighted caboose.  It starts at about 10 volts.  I originally connected it to BU, but it barely moved; so now it's on AU.  I think what we're seeing is normal.

[sulafool]

 Whaaattt???  Bob, you're actually running a "derail-o-matic" 2 wheel leading truck???

[lionelsoni]

Never!  It's modified for correct steering geometry.

[Nish]

And...The only thing drawing current from the transformer is the engine and my lighted lockon (No lights in the caboose). Just a sluggy engine huh? What's this about derailing? My 2037 at least stays glued to the track, even at hi- speed.

[lionelsoni]

Lionel put the pivot for the pilot truck too far forward on this and some other locomotives with 2-wheel trucks.  When the locomotive goes around a curve, the front wheels should turn to keep rolling along parallel to the rails, with their axle perpendicular to the rails.  The problem is that they turn too far, so that they are actually trying to climb the rails to the inside of the curve.

They don't necessarily derail, if the curve is not too sharp or there are no uneven surfaces for the flange to catch.  Extra weight or spring force can also help keep the truck on the track.  But the real cure is to extend the tongue of the truck and create a new pivot for it farther back.

The exactly correct location is slightly forward of midway between the pilot-truck axle and the middle of the drivers.  The amount by which it is forward of the midpoint is the square of the wheelbase, divided by the total distance between midpoint and pilot-truck axle, divided by 8.  For a 2026 or 2037 this is about 1/4 inch.  There's a convenient location on the front crossmember of the motor.

But it is not necessary to get it exactly right to fix the problem.  On the other hand, if you are lucky enough not to have the problem, don't fix it!

[USNRol]

Nish

The only symptom I can find is that after running the train for about an hour, I felt for hot spots and the rollers were really hot. There is no pitting, and no evidence on the track or rollers of excessive arcing.

I've found very hot rollers on my locos (PW diesels) before and one time I attributed it to a very dirty roller axle and roller bore.  I pried apart the amature and axle to remove the roller and cleaned the axle and bore as best I could and reassembled.  The heat usually comes from all the current travelling through a very small surface area.  you could try spraying some electrical contact cleaner through the roller axle while in place to flush any egregious insulating contamination from there.  Some heat is probably normal here; as long as you're not melting plastic, and since Bob is having identical results with his 2037 you're probably good to go.

Roland

[Nish]

Thanks all, for the suggestions and insight, and Roland, I will surely try that if the heat gets out of control. Since first posting, my smoke unit has completely burned out now, and the loco is running a bit better. I think some of the power loss was due to the crossed windings in the smoke element. The final verdict will come when I get the new smoke element installed. I imagine it might slow down a bit with the current draw increase, but at least we'll have smoke again. And thanks to the other poster on the derailing issue. For the record, my Xmas tree loop is 042 tubular and unless the speed is excessive, the 2037 sticks to the rails. Nish

[servoguy]

 On the 2037s that I have, the rivet that holds the spring for the pilot truck rubs on the support plate that holds the truck.  You need to lube the rivet and plate.  Also lube the axel, and lube the area where the rivet rubs on the bottom of the loco.  I ran a 2037 last night on an O-27 figure eight last night for about an hour without a derail.  I am going to try it again on my O-31 layout.  This layout has 34 switches operated by the loco, so it should be a good test.  These are 022 switches.

 You can reduce the runnng current if you oil the commutator.  That's right, oil the commutator.  5W-20 engine oil from AutoZone works well.  On Monday this week, I was talking with a friend who is also an electrical engineer, and he related the story of brush wear problem on early DC motors.  The carbon brushes were wearing very fast due to lack of lubrication.  He said that quite by accident, a brush fell into a bucket of oil.  The engineer/technician fished the brush out of the oil and noticed that the brush was absorbing the oil.  When they tested the brush in a motor, the wear rate was drastically reduced.  He also said, that in WWII, the B-17s had a problem with brush wear, and they had to find a solution that would work at altitude where the air pressure was reduced.  At lower air pressure, the oil in the brushes would evaporate faster than it would at sea level.   When I ran the 2037 last night, the engine would run well at 9 volts.  It slowed down around the 270 degree turn at the end of the figure eight due to the friction of the engine wheel slipping on the curve, but it never stalled.  It was pulling 5 cars:  3 post war, one MPC, and one with the high angle wheels.  All the cars were lubed.

 BTW, some lubricants may not work well for the commutator.  I may have been lucky in that the first thing I tried worked well.  Examination of the commutator of the 2046 that I oiled about 2 weeks ago shows no problem.

[alank]

 

To add to the 2037 saga, after I set up two loops on our family room floor, I brought in the 2037 that I aguired this summer.   That is when I cleaned it up and serviced it.   It has been sitting since August.   Like you and Bob Nelson, mine starts best loaded with a whistle tender, 5 PW cars and a lighted caboose at just about 10 volts.   I am using a LW transformer, and may try a 1033 later if I feel like searching a little.  Unloaded, the engine will start by itself at around 9.   At 12.5  volts loaded, this engine and train is chugging around the track.   I can back it down to 10-11 volts once it is running, and it will maintain some speed, but 12-12.5 is tops that I would want to run.  I also tested the latter 2026, which operated the same.  

I find your B17 story interesting.   I wish my dad were still here, as he would know.   My dad was a flight engineer on the B17 and a host of other military aircraft.   I drank a toast to him the other day, as it was 5 Christmas ago that he celebrated his last with us here, after we moved back home.   My mom just turned 95 in November, and we celerated my brother's birthday with her yesterday.   My mom was the one who supported us in the trains hobby, she would say that when we were in the basement running or working on the trains, she didn't worry, as she knew we weren't out on the streets getting in trouble.   I used to stay up well past 11PM on Friday nights when I was in high school working on the trains.   Used to love operating in the dark.

      Right now I have 2 loops, O gauge, on the floor that I am running.   I was informed by my wife and daughter that this is alright until Saturday, so I won't be dragging in to many trains.   The inner loop I am running my son's Prewar Trains.   I happened onto this find 3 years ago when we went to Long Island for my niece's wedding.   Talk about being in the right place at the right time.   My son was after me for about 5 years for a prewar set, and when I got serious about it, this set(actually 2) fell into my hands.   I like them, we have added a little to them, but I think I will stick to postwar and modern.

     The outer loop, I am running postwar.   I have a table set up in my garage that has three sets I found in a newspaper add this summer.   They needed a little work, but after chores and whatever else I was working on this summer, I cleaned them all up, and they are ready for running.  So that is what I will do a little for our Christmas celebration.   I like a few trains at Christmas and wish I had a permanent layout, but will make do with what I have right now.

     Saturday, it will be back to work early to power up.   This year we shutdown for Christmas, it will be interesting to see how well we power up, after a shutdown.   My experience from a few years ago was that we don't always power up as easy as we shut down.  Will see.

                                                                           Merry Christmas...

[Berk765]

If you bought brand new brush springs and brushes they may just need to be broken in. I ordered new motor brushes and springs for my 1666 steamer and the motor could barely turn even at full track voltage, because they were extremely stiff. I had to give it a nudge for it to start rolling now its fine now but still takes more voltage than when its worn out brushes and springs were equipped. It could be that it needs to be broken in some. Hope this helps.