My Christmas train was running a little sluggish so I decide to oil it up. I couldn’t find my train oiler so I used my wife’s sewing machine oil. Anyway the hole is so big that oil was gushing out of the bottle. I thought I was able to clean up the excess so oiled every wheel and what a surprise I had when I fired it up. Oil came from nowhere and lots of it. The wheels on the loco where just spinning all the way around the track until it just could not move. I had to clean the track 3 times with goo-be-gone and still oil was accumulating. I had to soak an old sock with cleaner and attached it to an old flat car. It is now part of the train or at least until all the oil is gone. I have no idea when that will be, but it seems to be working.
Over lubrication is the most common problem seen in Lionel train repairs.Not only is it messy, but the excess lubrication attracts dust and dirt, which fouls both electrical and mechanical parts, and in the end, can even act as a cutting agent.
I guess now I need to know how to clean it up. I think I can dip the car trucks in a bath of some mild degreaser or maybe dish soap, but I don’t know what to do about the Loco. I was thinking of maybe some spray electrical cleaner for the drive wheels.
I still don’t know where all the oil is coming from. I know my eye sight isn’t as good as it was 50 years ago, but know I didn’t put that much oil on it. It’s like the stuff is growing. The only reason I even used the sewing machine oil is because I read about someone else using it.
I’m now worried about the engine, I hope it’s not spreading through the gear train into the motor. I don’t really know how to take it apart and was wondering if there is something I can submerse it in that will not cause rust?
A neighbor thinks I should spray it with WD40 to remove the excess oil, because it acts like a cleaner and dries, but before I go to such measures, I wanted to hear from others.
What sort of engine do you have? Your picture shows a flat car.If the engine came into me, I'd use lint-free rags, q-tips, and pipe cleaners to wipe up as much oil as possible. Start with dry ones. Be creative. You usually can fold a paper towel and slide it between the backs of the wheels and the frame to pick up some of the oil. After you have cleaned up what you can with dry rags/q-tips/pipe cleaners/paper towels, do it again with moistened ones. Use a bit of mineral spirits. Remember: moist, not wet!
WD-40? - great to protect metal hand tools, and perhaps unpainted sheet metal frames. Others may disagree.... I think it will compound your problem.
I had no needle oiler in my younger days so I used a round toothpick for oiling. It's not perfect but I oiled that way for years. As for deoiling just keep wiping it off.
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Thanks everyone for responding. That flat car was just an illustration of how I was mopping up the oil.
Well, I decided to take a chance and I found a screw that I never noticed before on top of the loco and finally got it all apart. Actually it sort of fell apart after I removed 3 screws and of course it wasn’t as easy to put back together.
The oil dripping from the loco was actually being thrown up into the body from the tracks and NOT from the loco. I was very careful with the loco because of the gear grease and the traction wheels, but I was not so careful with the cars at all. So that’s 40 axels for 10 cars which meant a lot of oil on the track. I just never thought of oil from the cars ending up in the loco.
Anyway, I think I got it cleaned up without the WD, but now I need to add a little grease to the gear train. And of course the grease is probably with the oil that I still haven’t found yet. I do however know where my N-scale grease is. Do I dare use it instead or should I wait until the LHS opens and buy more Lionel grease?
You didn't say what you are using for "N" gauge grease.I use Labelle #106 grease for all toy trains, and a few other things as well.I prefer it to Lionel's.
cwburfle You didn't say what you are using for "N" gauge grease.I use Labelle #106 grease for all toy trains, and a few other things as well.I prefer it to Lionel's.
Oh I have one of those Atlas Lube kits with grease and oil. The oil spilled out a while ago but I still have the grease.
I would use electric contact cleaner. It blasts away dirt and drys vast with no damage to the wiring. Only thing you might have to oil the engine again cause it removes all the oil. I use Hoppes Gun Oil on my wheels and good old regular wheel bearing grease on the gears. Sparingly
I just pulled out my Atlas grease, but it’s called “Atlas Motor Bearing Lube”. It has gears listed as one of the many uses, but I’m a little skeptical. As far as any wheel bearing grease goes, I used some white grease on the drawer slides of an old tool box once and the grease dried out and turned into glue. I had to use pry bars to open the drawers and then I soaked it with WD40 to get it working again. Needless to say I’m afraid of just any grease after that experience.
For locomotive gears, I use ordinary automotive grease. A pound of it will last you a lifetime; and, as you can see, it's wonderful stuff:
Mystik JT-6 Multi-Purpose Grease [is] extremely stable and water resistant, engineered to effectively lubricate under a wide variety of severe operating conditions.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni For locomotive gears, I use ordinary automotive grease. A pound of it will last you a lifetime; and, as you can see, it's wonderful stuff: Mystik JT-6 Multi-Purpose Grease [is] extremely stable and water resistant, engineered to effectively lubricate under a wide variety of severe operating conditions.
I just got back from my LHS and they do not have anything, so now I’m going to have use something that I already have. I have a can of wheel bearing grease and also a can of Milwaukee tool worm drive grease. Don’t know which one I’m going to use yet, but I'm going to open up both cans and see which one is the most pliable.
Given your choices, I'd be inclined to use the Milwakee tool worm drive grease. Remember - a little goes a long way.
When I grease my locomotives, I will apply grease to just two or three gear teeth on one of the wheels, then rotate the wheels by hand - if possible - to spread the grease around on the gear train.
I'm currently using LaBelle 106 grease. Until recently, I've used aome 1950's vintage Lionel grease. The LaBelle product is billed as being compatable with plastics.
Good luck.
Dont feel bad.A couple of weeks ago I had a squeky wheel on a 1680 I was running.Took it off the track, grabbed the needle oiler and went to work.The end of the bottle popped off soaking the car,filling my hand and making a mess of the floor.
cwburfle WD-40? - great to protect metal hand tools, and perhaps unpainted sheet metal frames. Others may disagree.... I think it will compound your problem.
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I got all the oil cleaned up finally on all the cars and the track. But, all is not well. I think maybe I either damaged the traction band or maybe I lost one. All I know for sure is that I don’t have the same traction as I used to have.
I went to the Lionel site to see if I could find an exploded parts view to see how many traction wheels I’m supposed to have and I can’t find anything for my engine. Every time I try, I only come up with the owner’s manual and no parts list.
The good thing about this is that I’ve have never seen my track so polished before. Not even when they were new. It’s starting to look like stainless steel. I guess I’m going to have to buy some BULLFROG SNOT for more traction.
Oh and I used the Milwaukee Tool Grease on the gears, because it claimed to be specifically formulated for electrical motors and I only used a very small amount.
Generally, wheels that are meant to have traction tires have a shallow groove between the flange and the outside edge of the wheel. This groove keeps the traction tire from wandering off of the wheel during operation.
What kind of locomotive are you working on?
It’s the 4-4-2 locomotive from the Lionel Winter Wonderland set. I don’t know what stock number is except that the manual is 73-1941-250. I can’t tell if the one and only traction wheel has a groove or not. It’s pulling 10 cars, but you can see the wheels are turning faster than the train is moving. It also slows down when all the cars are in the bend.
I remember someone talking about roughing up some track with sand paper to get more traction on a steep grade. Maybe that’s what I need to do. I usually sand the track before each season to remove any rust or dirt and the loco always has more than enough traction. It’s really shiny and smooth right now.
I used a socket from my tool box as a temporary weight for traction. It’s just until I get some new traction tires or bullfrog snot.
I just put together a motor for a PA diesel. The original motor had a stripped plastic gear, so I replaced most of the motor with a unit purchased at a swap meet. The replacement unit did not have the armature in it, and so it was plenty dirty inside. I got out the dust bunnies, and then proceeded to wash it down with WD-40 until I washed all the dirt and grit out of the gears and bearings. I then wiped off as much WD-40 as I could and proceeded to reassemble the motor, oiling things as I went. The WD does dry pretty quickly, leaving a very light oil film. That was yesterday. Today, inspection of the engine shows very little WD-40 residue.
servoguy I just put together a motor for a PA diesel. The original motor had a stripped plastic gear, so I replaced most of the motor with a unit purchased at a swap meet. The replacement unit did not have the armature in it, and so it was plenty dirty inside. I got out the dust bunnies, and then proceeded to wash it down with WD-40 until I washed all the dirt and grit out of the gears and bearings. I then wiped off as much WD-40 as I could and proceeded to reassemble the motor, oiling things as I went. The WD does dry pretty quickly, leaving a very light oil film. That was yesterday. Today, inspection of the engine shows very little WD-40 residue.
Yes, that’s what my neighbor said. He does not work on trains, but he does refurbish and repair appliances and said he uses this method all the time. He also said that he uses WD 40 to clean grease out of small gears boxes because it penetrates the grease and removes trapped moisture.
What I have done to remove oil from the track is to fold up two paper towels and attach them to a heavy car with rubber bands. Then I put a little isopropyl alcohol on the paper towels and run the train. It is amazing how much oil you can get of of what looks like clean track. It usually takes 2 or 3 towels to clean the track, and I fold the towels different ways to use as many areas of the towel as possible. This process will also clean the wheel on the loco, but it might be quicker to clean them with alcohol after cleaning the track. I have a layout in the living room that is O-60 fastrack, and I use a NH electric on it frequently. The NH has only one motor, magnetraction, and no rubber tires. It has a little trouble grabbing the track when the track is dirty. I have a 2-8-8-2 that doesn't want to run now because the track is too dirty. The pick-up rollers are not making a good enough connection, and the reversing unit keeps changing its mind about which direction the loco should run.
servoguy What I have done to remove oil from the track is to fold up two paper towels and attach them to a heavy car with rubber bands. Then I put a little isopropyl alcohol on the paper towels and run the train. It is amazing how much oil you can get of of what looks like clean track.
What I have done to remove oil from the track is to fold up two paper towels and attach them to a heavy car with rubber bands. Then I put a little isopropyl alcohol on the paper towels and run the train. It is amazing how much oil you can get of of what looks like clean track.
I did try using paper towels attached under a car and you are right, it worked great. I fact I’m going to always use this method for now on. I used to use a mini roller cover stuck unto a long pole to reach across the layout and into tunnels, but this works so much better.
I just learned about magnetraction today while I was searching for solutions for my traction problem. I wondered why some of my locos did not have the traction tire. I always thought it was because they were heaver and now I understand why Fastract is steel instead of nickel.
I normally run N-scale and only bring out the Lionel for Christmas, but I’m having so much fun with O-scale that bought a couple steamers from eBay today to use all year long. Plus, I can let my grandson play with it when I’m not there. I’ve taught him how to put the cars on the track and how to couple them. The Locos are a little heavy for him and I get a little nervous when they derail, but he’s learning. I don’t think I’ll ever let anybody touch my N-scale unless I’m right there and then it’s only to operate the throttle, nothing else.
I have a similar NYC 4-4-2. It has one traction tire on the left rear driver. When pulling 10 cars, it looks like it is trying to make a right hand turn - it kind of 'crabs' down the track.
I'd expect your locomotive to have a similar set up.
After replying to your post, I got to thinking about my NYC steamer. I think it might be possible to replace the right hand rear driver with a left hand rear driver. This would allow a second traction tire to be installed on the locomotive, which should improve its performance.
This will involve removing wheels from axles and pressing them back on - not an easy job if you do not have the right tools.
I have not found a good source for exploded diagrams and part number lists for the newer Lionel products yet. The parts ordering section in the Lionel web site has lists and pictures available for some products, but not all.
8ntruck I have a similar NYC 4-4-2. It has one traction tire on the left rear driver. When pulling 10 cars, it looks like it is trying to make a right hand turn - it kind of 'crabs' down the track.
Thanks, I never did find a parts list, but I saw some close-ups on eBay of 4-4-2 for sale and they only had one traction wheel.
It sounds like a job for BULLFROG SNOT check out this site. I have not tried it, but everyone raves about it on the N & HO forums. I just ordered some for myself and unfortunately my LHS don’t carry it, but they never have anything, so with the Christmas it’s going to be awhile before I can see for myself.
http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/pages/How_to.html
If you do get another drive wheel let us know. I know my 4-4-2 has the power but not enough weight for traction. It really fly’s around the track now that I tied on the socket, but of course I don’t want to keep the socket on. It tends to do wheelies on the curves causing the front wheel to jump track if going to fast.
Make sure you degrease the rim of the other wheel before snotting it.(That just sounds disgusting huh? )
I have one of the Christmas sets that came with a 4-4-2 and it only has one traction tire.
Another issue you may be having is that the traction tire is badly coated on the inside with oil, or actually absorbed the oil. Did you pull it off and clean the wheel under the tire and then clean the tire too? If not, the traction tire is probably slipping.To keep from making the rubber brittle when cleaning try a soapy tooth brush.
BTW, good ole Life Like track cleaner is a great oil remover for track.
Going off my 4-4-2, they are not heavy pullers. Where 10 cars is a short train for N scale, in O gauge, it's getting long (for a 4-4-2), especially if you have any operating cars in the consist.
I just purchased a pacific to add to the Christmas layout for that very reason.
8ntruckAfter replying to your post, I got to thinking about my NYC steamer. I think it might be possible to replace the right hand rear driver with a left hand rear driver. This would allow a second traction tire to be installed on the locomotive, which should improve its performance. This will involve removing wheels from axles and pressing them back on - not an easy job if you do not have the right tools.
Actually, if the bullfrog snot works as well on O gauge as it does the smaller gauges, it's a much simpler answer. (I also run n scale)
Be sure to let us know how the BS works on an O gauge loco Sleeper
I nosed around the Lionel site last night and did find a photograph showing a disassembled 4-4-2.
I had to go into the 'purchase replacement parts' section of the site and searched on several things. I think it was a search on 'North Pole Central' that yielded a section listing parts for a 'starter set 4-4-2'. There is a camera icon off to the right side of the page that will bring up a picutre of a disassembled locomotive. It appears that the driver wheels are not available seperately, so that means I'll have to come up with a 'junker' to borrow parts from. Not sure it is worth the effort.
Definitely let us know about the results with the Bullfrog Snot. There was a thread about it a couple of months ago, but I do not recall reading anything about how well it worked.
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