I can tell you more about the 8644 set. I have one. The strangest thing is that the engine number and tender are numbered 8632. The boiler is cast it has smoke and an electronic e unit. So it runs with a DC motor on an AC transformer. It does have a traction tire. A good little engine.
Hope this helps.
I have a die cast 4-4-2 New York Central steamer that I bought new 4 or 5 years ago. I'm going to guess that it has very similar running gear to the one you are looking for. It has an air whistle in the tender, electronic e-unit, pretty good smoke unit, and one traction tire.
I've had it pulling 10 mixed postwar and modern boxcars and stock cars without any trouble. The one traction tire makes the locomotive run down the track looking like it wants to turn to the right when it is under heavy load.
If I were going to use this locomotive in a display where it would be running for hours at a time, I'd pull 5 or 6 cars instead of 10.
I bought my first 4-4-2 back in 1997, have six of them now. they are bullet proof. give them some grease and oil and turn them loose. I have only put one yes one traction tire replacement in all these years. normally run with 8 lionel cars. cheapest I paid on e-bay was $24 and most $78. at the train shows the cheapest I have seen is about $50. no matter where you buy one they are great value for the money.
Ripley is right on. I've got one pulling my Wabash freight line. 8 cars. And with ease. Two other things I like: Its a great smoker, and it doesn't slow down at all when you use the whistle. I got for about $40 on-line, but I can't remember where now.
Interesting. Mine struggles with more than 7 cars, especially if you throw an operating car in the mix. With that load, at full throttle, it runs about half the speed it's capable of with 5 cars.
Problem appears to be a weak motor.Tis why I posted the question on my loco purchasing options.
If buying used, see if you can test run it under load first.
Also,when looking to buy, don't forget to check craigslist.org for your area.
Sam's comment joggs my memory. When I run my NYC Atlantic using my postwar 1033 transformer, the top speed is slower with the smoke turned on than with the smoke turned off. This suggests a capacity issue with the transformer.
My layout currently has several track powered switches and I typically have two or three other locomotives on the track 'idling' with the e-units locked into neutral, but the headlights still on. So when you add all of that up, I might be getting close to the capacity of my 1033.
As I have said many times, the Lionel 4-4-2 are certainly decent locos for the dollar. Very common with parts easily available (though Lionel is currently out of smoke units) and easy to add extra detailing to.
That said, in reference to what Sam commented, DC can motors are not precise. Though the Mabuchi motors used by Lionel are certainly decent, they can run at different speeds, which is sometimes more noticable on locos with dual motors. I have had this one happen with a couple of the K-Line diesels.
The smoke units in these locos do require a bit more power. I have one 4-4-2 that I did an experiment on and I removed the circuit board and found it ran no faster than previously. BUT when the smoke unit finally burned out and I wired it up without a replacement, low and behold, the loco did not need as much current to run at speeds it did before with the smoke unit intact. And this is with a Lionel 1033 transformer at the B-U setting of 0-11 volts. Normally I have to switch to the A-U setting of 5-17 volts to run the 4-4-2 steamers, unless it's a short train with an unlighted caboose. Then the B-U setting is fine.
I have a bunch of smaller late MPC era 0-4-0 and 2-4-0 small steamers with DC can motors and no smoke units. I have added some weight to the loco chassis and shell along with a headlight. I've also removed the traction tire, and still with the B-U setting, these locos easily pull a 10-12 car train with no trouble at all, and not at full throttle either. One or two still have their original MPC open frame motors and these need the A-U setting on the 1033. But others have had the motors replaced with a modern Lionel chassis with a DC motor.
My Kickapoo Dockside pulls like a champ with no weight added to the chassis and no traction tire either, but it also has no e-unit, which can also drain power. So in my mind (and I'm not the electronics expert that Lionelsoni is), the smoke units do require and drain more power and require a little more voltage.
One more final thought on the pulling power of the Lionel 4-4-2: Sometimes traction tires can become loose. If this happens, this can affect the pulling power of the loco and the traction tire should be re-adhereed so it will not bind or slip. IF the tire is worn, it should be replaced.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
I thought I heard my name.
Adding a smoke generator (or a headlight or an e-unit coil) in parallel with a locomotive's motor does not cause the locomotive to require any more track voltage for the same speed. What it does require is more current from the transformer. Any real transformer has a certain output impedance, which acts much like the track resistance that slows our trains at the far reaches of the layout. This output impedance reduces the voltage that the transformer is putting out. So we compensate by turning the handle. But this doesn't actually get more voltage to the train; it just compensates for the voltage lost because of the greater current that the train is drawing.
Probably the greatest weakness of the otherwise excellent 1033 is that it goes up only to 16 volts. This is enough for many locomotives. But, when a locomotive draws a lot of current, the voltage drops, and we turn up the control to compensate, it is easy to run out of range on the 1033. This problem is exacerbated by the 1033's being a small transformer and therefore having a higher output impedance and therefore showing more voltage drop for the same current than a Z or ZW, for example, might have.
If the 1033 had been designed with a few more volts of output range, perhaps up to 20 volts, it would be a truly awesome transformer instead of a mostly awesome transformer.
Bob Nelson
I understand what you are saying Bob.
But what prompted me to my thoughts was that my 1033 is devoted only to the train. I have other transformers for certain, but only one runs the trains with no other power draw. For the most part, the trains I run have DC can motors and I have switched over to smaller and lower wattage light bulbs... a move that works well with the types of locos I run (a car with a 12-18 volt bulb isn't going to be bright at all with a loco that runs fast on 10 volts). It also drains less power from the transformer.
I have several 4-4-2 Lionel steams and all require the A-U setting on the 1033 to pull a train of a reasonable length. But the one 4-4-2 that is currently minus the smoke unit does fine on the B-U setting. On the same thought, I have one open frame AC pullmor motored loco that is wired without an mechanical e-unit and that loco surprisingly will run just fine on the B-U, whereas the others with mechanical e-units intact need the A-U setting.
So it just strikes me in this case, regardless of reserve power of the transformer, that things like the smoke unit and mechanical e-units do require more current from the transformer. I was quite surprised though at the difference the smoke unit can make in the voltage needed for operation of the same locomotive.
I do for one, like the lower output range of the 1033 though. I does have some advantages. Folks complain of kids running trains off the train track (or worse, the elevated train board) and I find this is a exceptionally rare situation with the 1033.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month