Is toy trains a learned activity or genetic?

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mikeygaw

i would definatley have to say atleast my case is genetics... my grandfather, father, and uncle all had model railroads, and my great-great-grandfather was a steam locomotive enginner in Russia for the Czar until the revolution.

But Mike, I would argue that once one generation is involved in trains, the next generation gets that early exposure that I mentioned. This can set up a long chain of family involvement that spans generations. I still say that it is evironmental, you were basicly doomed to love trains. You have been around them all of your life right? It's more like the family business, than a disease. [swg]

[Mikeygaw]

i would definatley have to say atleast my case is genetics... my grandfather, father, and uncle all had model railroads, and my great-great-grandfather was a steam locomotive enginner in Russia for the Czar until the revolution.

[FJ and G]

"I feel that it is due to exposure and an inherent interest in things mechanical. It is known that males are more apt to be mechanically inclined and if one just looks at this forum there are few, if any, females posting."

--------------------

Roger,

You just made the best case for it being genetic (or possibly hormonal???).

"Mechanical" inclination is probably a better way to describe it than a "train gene".

In the past (before trains), train nuts might have been blacksmiths or carpenters or something dealing with construction; or at least had a theoretical love of these things.

Unlike my cousins, I've never really cared for tinkering with cars. At least that's what I thought.

But then, I started watching monster garage and orange county choppers and became fascinated with what they are doing.

And in the military, my mechanical scores were very high.

And, many many model railroaders are also in the engineering profession. I am, a Human Factors Engineer (M.A.) and my magazine is about engineering (I'm an editor).

So there you have it.

Case closed. It's definitely 90% genetic.

The 10% is just discovering that you have the gene. That's where the "learning" part comes into play.

dav

[Dave Farquhar]

For me it was learned. I don't know of any close relative who ever worked for any railroad (genealogy is another one of my interests). Dad had Lionel track mounted on plywood in our garage for as long as I can remember. After years of bugging him about it, we finally set it up. I was hooked. I was into building models anyway, so naturally I took to that too. I got my interest in model airplanes from Dad, who got it from his father (who literally built the airport in the town where he practiced medicine). Dad's Lionels were all from the postwar period, during Lionel's peak. I suspect he had a Lionel because every other kid his age from a moderate-to-high income family had one.

When Dad set his boyhood layout back up, it was the mid-1980s, which was a pretty dark time. It was a bit of a struggle to find anything to add to the layout. I was the only kid I knew who liked toy or model trains. At first I definitely liked them best, but as the years went by, I spent less and less time with them and Dad spent a lot of time with them, just letting the trains run in circles.

The trains went back into boxes when Dad died. When I bought my first house, Mom hauled a bunch of his stuff over and put it in my basement. The trains were among them. They sat in my basement for about a year until I remembered them. They were in pretty rough shape when I got them out. Thanks to the Internet and the public library, I got one engine and all the cars running. I had his other two engines professionally repaired. And I've been hooked ever since.

Everyone always assumes I'm a train nut. Not so much. I drove past the old Frisco (now BNSF) yard in St. Louis every day for years without so much as noticing it. For me, it's a connection with my Dad, and it represents the way this country used to be but isn't anymore. And I enjoy finding junker cars and repairing them to get them running again, and building stuff is a creative outlet for me.

Don't get me wrong, nowadays when a train goes by I look, but for me I think it's about the craftsmanship and creativity and nostalgia more than anything. Oh, and the thrill of the chase--you can't buy the stuff I like at Kmart. (Though sometimes you can find a die-cast car or a Homies figure that fits in OK at Kmart.) For me those are much bigger factors than love of trains.

[Roger Bielen]

I feel that it is due to exposure and an inherent interest in things mechanical. It is known that males are more apt to be mechanically inclined and if one just looks at this forum there are few, if any, females posting.

I have a strong mechanical interest and if I were not exposed to trains at an eary age my interest would probably be channeled else where, maybe aviation. My grandaughters have an interest from a purely toy and control perspective, they don't care how/why it does what it does and probably couldn't care less about trains if it were not for me. I'm sure as they grow older they'll drift away from trains and move even further into the more traditional dolls.

[jprampolla]

Hi Folks,

In my humble opinion, our use of layouts, with either scale or non-scale trains, is an outgrowth of the custom of setting up a nativity scene at Christmas, which was started by Saint Francis centuries ago. Of course St. Francis never used trains, but there is a European tradition of elaborate nativity scenes depicting a whole thriving community. In many families in Baltimore, Maryland, where I was born and raised, the nativity scene was always part of the Christmas train layout, especially before the 1950s. Later the family would give the nativity scene a different place of honor in the home. I knew a family who came to this country from Italy in the mid 1960s and they set up a scene with a nativity scene, houses and scenery, but no trains. That was their tradition. Although I am not a historian or of German descent, I believe there is a strong German tradition of an elaborate Christmas themed display. In Baltimore, long before I was born in the late 50s, people would set up an approximately 8 by 4 foot layout in their front window of the famous Baltimore City row home, with the white marble steps, so that passersby would be able to see the layout, which we all called a “Christmas Garden” back then. According to my mother and uncles, people would ring the door bell and ask to see the layout, and without reservation these people, perhaps total strangers, would be gladly invited in and the layout would be operated for them. No worries then. The Baltimore City row home was on average about 13 feet wide, and the vestibule occupied about 3 and a half feet of the front width. That left a nice area at the front window about 8 by 4 feet, just right for a sheet of plywood today, but I don’t know what was used for the “platform” back then. I have a box of track screws from the early 50s that says “For Christmas Gardens and Train Layouts" on the box, made by the Life-Like company which is a Baltimore company. The term “Christmas Garden” is only used now by a few who have roots in old Baltimore.

In my youth, it was considered a bit eccentric to have trains set up all year, but now it is accepted by most people. Now that our families are spread out all over the country, often visits don’t fall during the holiday season, so all the more reason to share a layout anytime when out-of-town guests drop by. For me the layout is no longer just for Christmas. I should say that I now keep Christmas in my heart all year long, and the layout is a nice reminder of the wonderful gift of life and community.

Take care, Joe.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Nah Sask, I don't really think there is a genetic element to this stuff. I think what you are seeing is the result of exposure from a time before you can remember. I think that's what happened to me, because there is no history of train loving in my family, just me!

I really believe that it is environmental, and based on the experiences of the individual. From the time that I was a baby, right up to the time when I have clear memories, and beyond, I was exposed to trains on a regular basis.

Each week my father would take me to visit his mother and brother on the other side of town. On this 8 mile trip we encountered 5 different sets of railroad tracks. I think after a while he noticed that I was reacting when we saw a train, and figured I liked it, so then he would stop so I could watch.

Add to all of this the fact that I was given a set of plastic pu***rains, which must have been my favorite toy, because there are a bunch of photos of me playing with them. By the time I was 5 and got my first Marx set, I was hooked.

Now I'm 43 and dad is 76, and he is still trying to figure out why I like trains so much, when it was really his "fault" all along. THANKS DAD.

By the way, dad thinks I'm nuts.[swg]

[Anonymous]

Oh, this is easy. Its a SICKNESS!! [:p]

[Anonymous]

Well, I think that it is actually sort of a combination between genetics and learned behavior. Many people probably love trains due to genetics or family traits, but don't realize they do or become railfans/model railroaders unless there is something to ignite that interest inside them. It may take more to ignite that inerest in some people than others. With this in mind, there are probably more people who might like trains than we know of and probably some people who never get their interest sparked at all, which is really too bad for them.

As far as what sparked my own interest, I'll never know. I've been obsessed with trains all my life. I'd guess that I may have perhaps seen a train as a baby and became hooked, who knows? Of course experiences that spark an interest in some people don't in others, so that's where genetics come in. In trying to think of where I got my own genes from, I'd tend to lean more towards my mother's side. My uncle on my mom's side had a Scout set as a kid and my mom and her twin sister enjoyed playing with it when he wasn't around. They thought that it was really amazing being able to turn a switch and have a train go. My mom also was always fascinated as a child (and still is) by miniature displays. Her grandmother had little cardboard Christmas buildings that she always enjoyed. I have learned that my great great grandfather on my mom's side had worked for the railway in Russia before coming to Canada. This is quite odd considering that he was a German and I don't have any Russian blood in my family. I wish I knew exactly what he did. Perhaps he was a railfan. With my love of trains, both my mom and dad have become genuinely very interested. My dad has even mentioned the idea of building a layout of his own after I move out. He probably had that love of trains inside of him, but it just didn't come out until I came along to spark it. Those genes were probably passed on to me as well.

[spankybird]

I think you are correct Elliot,

I have been told more than once at work that I am nuts. We better be looking over our shoulders to see if the squirrels are looking at us.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I would have to say that it is learned behavior. Maybe a good way to look at it is how trees reproduce. They create millions of seeds in a lifetime, but only a few of them land in a place with the right conditions to turn into new trees, the rest are scattered to the wind. All of that talk a few weeks ago, about this hobby, and how to get young people interested, really hits home here, especially if we use the tree analogy.

Some trees even produce seeds that are edible. I am rather partial to cashews. By this standard, I think it is safe to say:

We are all nuts.

[swg]

[Anonymous]

I have two cousins. They still live in the "Old Country", Denmark. I have met them a few times but not often enough to say I really know them well. True, when we get together we chat as well as my fractured Danish and their British English permit but it is usually about family matters in common or simple expository prose. Yet, both are railfans. The older man is a steam fan while the younger is a trolley fan. Neither are modellers although the older one was in his teens. We have two female cousins who have absolutely no interest. There might be something in the blood or in the family background....or it just may be that railroads are just an interesting subject. Odd-d

[FJ and G]

My first and vivid memory of trains was about 1959, elevated subways of New York; by 1960, at just the age of 4, I recall watching the New Haven with utter fascination. Nothing at all would excite me as much. It was love at first sight.

The reason I use my own example to to show the effects at an extremely young age. NOTHING but nothing can account for this fascination other than a genetic predisposition.

I really don't think you can have a real love of trains by learning to love them. If so, it would be shallow. Case in point: the wives (or in rare instances husbands) of train buffs eventually do take a liking to trains (at least sometimes), but never never have a really deep love for trains like someone who is genetically predisposed.

dav

[Anonymous]

According to one theory I've heard about, the only things that is hard wired in a human being is the swallow reflex. Everything else is learned.

On the other hand, we do know that people have "genetic dispositions" to like or do various things. Studies involving identical twins that were separated shortly after birth show that even though they've been separated, they end up leading very similar lives. The only possible explanation is a genetic one.

In the end, I agree that whether or not you like toy trains is probably determined by something in your genetic make-up. Whether or not you get the bug depends on whether or not you're exposed to it.

Tony

[spankybird]

I have to agree Dave,

I have a bother four years older than me and he does not have any interest in model trains. He enjoys seeing my, but does not wi***o have a layout. I also have three cousins
within two years of me and we all had trains and layouts when we were young. I think our fathers were competing with each other. One has a HO layout (thought he would save space until he found out the radius of the track was almost the same as O gauge), one still has his trains, but all boxed up, and the other lost all interest in it.

I believe that either you love it or not.

tom

[wallyworld]

After several decades in the hobby, I have come to the same conclusion. Although I don’t think the origin of this interest is genetic but rather in a certain set of personality types. I don't subscribe to my being a product of genetic predestination or fated to be a railfan and modeler. Although it would be a wonderful rationale for explaining the cost of new purchases to my wife. My wife claims that the layouts I have built are an attempt to create a world that I can literally control as a response to the prototype that any idea of controlling it would be considered pathological. I don’t subscribe to this theory but it is interesting how far some will go with their creations as far as setting them in every detail down to printed operating schedules; etc while others let their imaginations to the walking. I think this hobby requires a healthy dose of imagination and creativity. In some sense I think it is an artistic pursuit. Collectors of art and collectors of trains share a similar trait. I have heard many collectors in standard gauge speak of their love of bright primary colors, while others literally take a paint brush in hand and weather their equipment, paint backdrops, create buildings, trees, etc. I think this is an overlooked aspect of the hobby in that in many ways, all of us are artists of one sort or another. The love of detail in some models rivals the love of detail found in paintings or one color scheme of a road over another. I am not saying that this is all there is to our fascination with toy trains, but it certainly is an over looked component of the overall portrait.

[FJ and G]

Just got the July CTT in the mail yesterday. Actually, my beagle got it first and tore a 3 inch corner off the magazine so I'm trying to imagine which words are missing, using the context of the articles. Some nice pictures of the San Diego museum are also missing their corners. The missing pieces have all been digested by BB so there's no recovering them.

I did read Neil B's editorial in the front section. He writes that the love of toy trains usually starts at a young age and lasts until adulthood.

That got me thinking. As young as I can remember, I liked trains. I was exposed to trains just as much as my sisters were but they never really caught the bug. Growing up, I tried to get my friend and cousin interested but with no success.

Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that the love of toy trains is NOT a learned activity (although some exposure to them, obviously, is necessary). Toy trains (or any model trains or even foamer activities) is a genetic part of a person.

Either a person has toy trains in his or her blood or they don't. It's really that simple.

Dave Vergun