lionel 8060 b unit

[Anonymous]

the 8060 penna b unit is alittle tough to find these days and rather pricey for a
nonpowered unit. My question is; how can one be sure they are looking at an
actual penna b-unit..Are there copy substitutions on the market. I am looking
at one without any 8060 numbers on it but it looks just like one with the 8060
on one end. Were there variations made with this unit ?

[eZAK]

There are repaints out there so beware, ask questions, and look at the inside of the shell.

[3railguy]

It's likely a fake. You should get a collectors guide with pictures and descriptions to authenticate these kinds of things. If you're looking at these kinds of things on eBay, I'd hesitate to spend more than $50 with someone I never dealt with before. And I'd want to know him pretty well. eBay is loaded with crooks on the tough items.

[Big_Boy_4005]

The book that I have says there are variations, but doesn't list anything specific. Personally, I seriously doubt that there are any REAL variations. I worked in a hobby store when this piece was released. MPC was just getting into their limited edition kick during this period. They has a pretty good record for quality control by this time.

If I remember correctly, this piece was only available to dealers in package deals. The dealers would have to buy a bunch of JUNK in order to get ONE of these B units, so the numbers made may be under 10,000. This makes for a wonderful opportunity for fraud!!!

I would be very suspicous of any piece that didn't have a number. Does it have the original box??? Since it was marketed as a collectable piece, anyone buying one would most likely keep the box. No box = RED FLAG!!!

This item may be too dangerous to try to buy on line. Do you know the seller? Is he a member of the TCA or LCCA? Are you a member? This is a perk of membership in these organizations, closed community equates to trust, and possible recourse if necessary.

Do you have the matching A units? if you do, take them along and compare. There should be no noticible difference in paint or striping, and that gold should be hard to fake. Look at the sheen of the paint, and make sure it matches. Smell it, sounds funny I know, but there should be no smell of solvents. That may not be a valid test if it was painted a long time ago. Look for drips and imperfections in the paint. The stripes and letters were painted on, there should be no evidence of decals. Does it have a horn? It shouldn't, unless it was retrofitted. Lionel released a kit just for this purpose shortly after the trains came out. It wasn't a very good horn by today's standards.

If you still like the piece after going through this list, by all means buy it. But from the little you've said, I smell a rat. Be careful!!

[Big_Boy_4005]

On second thought, let's make this simple. I still stand by all of that other stuff, but the bottom line is:

No number=NO SALE

All of the gold was done with a silk screen in a single pass on each side at the factory. The number was done with the stripes and letters. There is no variation without numbers, only fakes!!!!!

[GregM]

I dug out mine when I read this thread because I couldn't remember if the 8060 was on both ends or just one. I have had mine since they came out and the 8060 is on one end. At one time these things were incredibly pricey. What, if I may ask. is the going rate today?

[Big_Boy_4005]

Number on one end is correct. No number is fake. The going rate according to a 2003 Greenberg pocket guide is $430 NEW. For that price THERE BETTER BE A BOX!!![swg]

[3railguy]

Offer the guy $50 and no more. That would be fair.

[daan]

If he accepts for 50 bucks, you have a replacement till you find the real one.. It doesn't hurt your trains if there is no number on it, as long as the price is equal to a fake it's no big deal..

[Big_Boy_4005]

$50 sounds pretty fair for a running piece, maybe up to $100 if the paint is really nice. Let the seller know that you are aware that it is not an original, and watch the price come down. If it looks good, it's a nice compromise. The goal here is to not get cheated.[swg]

[Anonymous]

thanks for all your replies and information. I did buy this unit and I think it is a copy but
it is a good copy and really looks good on the shelf between the 8970-71.At less than
one fourth the cost i thought the trade off was worth it. Plus this still gives me the
opportunity to search for the actual 8060 at a good price. Sometimes the searching
is as much fun as actually getting the rare pieces.
thanks

[Big_Boy_4005]

As long as you are happy with the purchase, and made an informed decision, then you did well. Enjoy!!![8D][^][tup]