Question about Lionel 6-31990 Copper Range Set

[Deputy]

Can anyone tell me if the loco and cars in this set are scale or not? I have seen advertisements on E-Bay that say "scale". But knowing E-Bay, many times the seller means O-Gauge and not O-scale.

Dep

[Train-O]

Deputy,

They are Traditional 'O' gauge in Lionel Classic 2005, Vol.2 catalog.

Go to 'Lionel Products'- web.site. for further and other Lionel info.

Ralph

[Deputy]

Ralph: I know they are listed there. I was wondering if the DIMENSIONS of the loco and cars were scale or not.

Example: Many times Lionel or MTH will sell a "traditional" set that includes a GP-9 that is actually scale size. So while the cars might be traditional size, the loco could be scale size. Just not as DETAILED as a Standard O or Premier line GP-9. And sometimes they will feature that it runs on 027 track without mentioning that it is actually scale in size. Complicated ain't it?

[Train-O]

Deputy,

My, error!

The set you're asking about is Traditional 'O' gauge, as per the Lionel Techs and repair personnel I've spoken to say that Traditional 'O' gauge is near scale and Standard 'O' Scale is closer to full 1:48 scale, therefore Standard 'O' Scale is a little larger than Traditional 'O' gauge.

Ralph   

[Deputy]

From what I understand Standard O is full scale and O-Gauge or "Traditional' refers to the size of the majority of stuff built in the 50s. Hence the "tradition" name. I just don't know where exactly the Copper Range rolling stock and loco fit. It's possible that the loco or cars may be scale size, even though the set is listed as traditional. At least, I am hoping that's the case

[Train-O]

Deputy,

 

I'm sorry, I don't know the scale sizes of the consist, as I never saw them in person.

The cars, in the photo., appear to be Standard 'O' Scale sizes, but I can't tell what scale size the engine looks to be, but whatever scale size the engine is, it has some nice features.

Ralph

[brianel027]

Deputy, to answer your question, YES the new Dockside is accurately done to 1:48 scale proportions. The length is a touch longer than actual scale and other minor alterations and compromises were made. But both train magazines that reviewed the loco said it was a scale model and were impressed with the detail at the loco's price range.

Lionel did a nice job on this one in my opinion, choosing a good prototype to model. Close enough to scale detail to please prototype operators (who at this price can justify adding details, putting on scale couplers and weathering) and yet not too super detailed to look out of place on a traditionally sized layout like mine.

Reminds me when Crown Models introduced their line of 3 box cars (steel side box car, woodside box car and the woodside reefer), now done by Weaver. They picked actual smaller prototypes to model, so while being scale, look at home with traditionally sized cars, albeit again with a little less than the high level detail we are now seeing on many models. If you've never noticed those cars, you might like them too... usually available at a deal compared to other current list prices.

Back to Copper Range: CTT did a story comparing the MTH Railking, K-Line and Lionel ore cars some time back. The ore cars in the set are to true scale proportion, albeit with detail compromises, like the very noticable plastic frame of the Lionel car. The only car in the set that is obviously not true scale is the SP style caboose.

Hope that helps.

[Seayakbill]

The caboose is not scale, the rest of the set is close enough to scale that you would be hard to tell the difference.

[Deputy]

Thanks Brian and everyone. This is great news. I really like the Copper Range set and I can get a pretty good deal on it. Think I may go for it. Thanks again for all the valuable info. I owe all of you.

Dep

[Train-O]

Deputy,

I just received a Lionel #6-38630, O-6-O, U.S. Army Transportation Corp Dockside Switcher which is similar to your Copper Range Mine Set Switcher and even though they're listed by Lionel as being Traditional 'O' Gauge, these babie are so finely detailed and have an ornamental bell and whistle in a yellow metal color ( and I believe they are made of metal), that these may be of a Standard 'O' Scale size.  From end to end, without the couplers, they measure approximately THIRTY scale feet long.

With the maintenance free, momentum flywheel motor; puffing smoke; directional head and back-up lights; forward, neutral and reverse directional changes; electronic high shrill steam whistle; two traction tires on the rear drivers; two operating, articulated, self centering knuckle couplers; engineer and fireman figures; on/off switches for the reverse, smoke and whistle units, on the bottom of the engine and the engine's body and frame being made of die-cast metal should qualify for Standard 'O' Scale, even though there is no electronic 'Bell' sound.

The locomotive is solid and heavy making it a good puller and pusher and along with all of the previously mentioned features and with the added cars that come with the set you want, all will be an enjoyment to have.

Happy Railroading,

Ralph 

[Deputy]

Thanks Ralph! Excellent review.

[dougdagrump]

Welcome Home !

I've got several of these little guys and they are excellent little loco's.

If you run them in reverse you can always tell folks as I do that they are the "Poor Man's" Cabforward.

After that feeble attempt at jocularity, the only problem I had on one of the earlier models was the smoke unit. The puffer piston uses a plastic/mylar reedvalve on the top of the piston and it tended to curl making essentially non-functional and they are a pain to replace( simple but so easy to screw-up ). My later purchases have not exhibited the same issue.

[Deputy]

Thanks Doug. LOL about the cab forward.

[Train-O]

Thanks to you both, Deputy for liking my review and also to Doug for supplying the positive info. regarding these engines.  I'm glad I bought one, I'd like to buy another, as these locos. really have a lot going for them and the price is right.

Ralph

[dwiemer]

I too have several of them and really like them.  I have spent as little as $65.00 for one and even at the asking price, they are worth it.  Some folks have issues with the whistle that sounds more like some kind of buzzer, but that is a small issue.  I would love to have one in command control and operating couplers with command.  That would make their use as a yard switcher fantastic.  Even without that, they are great fun on the layout.

dennis

[dougdagrump]

Dennis,

ERR at one time had/has a board that would convert it to TMCC. Can't remember which it was/is, the BEEP board (nolonger available) or the Mini-Commander which I think is what Brutus used for his Thomas upgrade.

[Train-O]

To All Forum Members,

I don't know if what I'm posting much matters, but I saw that these babies are 0-6-0Ts, the 'T' is for tender, as these cuties have a coal bunker attached to the rear of their cabs.

The prototype whistles of these engines were of a higher pitch and made a shrill sound, as what's represented on Lionel's version, or at least close to what the actual whistle sounded like, I guess, unless I'm wrong, due to the smaller size of the engines, a different type of whistle, or both, may be the reason(s) for this type of whistle sound on the prototype engines.

Ralph 

[lionelsoni]

In the Whyte system, 0-6-0T is the correct designation for this locomotive; but the T indicates a tank locomotive, not a tender locomotive.

Although any particular locomotive may be high-pitched, the pitch of the whistle has no functional relationship to the size of the locomotive.  Generally, American steam locomotives have had much-lower-pitched whistles than European locomotives, regardless of locomotive size.

[dougdagrump]

Bob, In the steam era didn't it seem like some of the roads used whistles that better fit the topography of their area of operation. 

[Train-O]

Bob,

Thank you for clearing these differences up.
I should have done my homework first, before posting what I thought.
I gave my engine a closer look and I saw that the water tank straddles the boiler.

Thank You,

Ralph

[Train-O]

Deputy,

When you get your Copper Range Mine Set, please, let us know.

Thanks,
Ralph 

[Deputy]

Train-O

Deputy,

When you get your Copper Range Mine Set, please, let us know.

Thanks,
Ralph 

At this point I'm not sure it will happen. The offer I made on E-Bay for it was a reasonable one and it was rejected. Here's the item for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-6-31990-O-Copper-Range-Mine-Train-Set_W0QQitemZ230370482632QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item35a32699c8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

If anyone wants to grab it feel free to do so. I won't be upset.

[Train-O]

Deputy,

I'm sorry to read your post of the deal not happening.

The asking price is really low, how could your offer not be accepted?

Ralph

[Deputy]

Train-O

Deputy,

I'm sorry to read your post of the deal not happening.

The asking price is really low, how could your offer not be accepted?

Ralph

Beats me. I didn't lowball him by any stretch. Since he has the option to "Make an Offer", I did so. Seems like he should have just posted the "Buy it Now" price if he wasn't really interested in offers.

[Train-O]

Deputy,

I'm not a big fan of E-bay, but at times you do get great bargains, as my wife usually buys from E-bay.

We do get shafted, sometimes, with E-bay, but then again some shop owners are skells, too!

Ralph 

[Deputy]

Ralph: You're preaching to the choir

I'd guess almost 1/2 my train collection was obtained off E-Bay. Where I live there simply are no hobby shops or train stroes. So I either have to buy online or E-bay. My luck has been quite good. Just a couple of times I didn't get what was advertised and it was returned for a prompt refund. No worries...I haven't soured on E-Bat by any stretch.