I recently purchased a Lionel signal bridge. Per the instructions, there is a way to move the signals so one is on top of the other for a single track operation. After removing the screw that attaches the signals to the structure, I found there is not enough wire to move each signal to the center of the bridge. Has anyone else tried this method and if so, how did you get the enough wire to stack the signals?
Also was wondering if this signal bridge could be activated using insulated track versus using the 153C contactor. If possible, does anyone have a diagram on how this can be accomplished?
Thanks in advance for your time and help!
It can be operated using control rails (insulated pieces of outside rail). However, it is not as simple to do as with a single signal, like a 153. How to do it depends on how you want it to work. So here are some questions for you before I repeat the instructions (which I have posted more times than I can count).
Do you want both signals to give the same indication, operated from a single control rail? If so, the wiring is pretty simple.
Or do you want the two signal heads to be operated independently, each from its own control rail? This requires some modification of the bridge. One of the signal heads must be insulated somehow from the bridge and provided with an extra wire to the body of the signal head. If this is the way you want to use the bridge, are you willing to make the modification? If not, you will need a 153C.
Bob Nelson
I am looking for the signals to give the same indication from a single control rail.
Thanks
Great. That makes it easy (except for stretching the wires to get those signal heads in the middle!). I assume that you want the usual arrangement where the green lights go out and the red ones light when the train is on the control rail. If you want it the other way around, just swap the references to red and green in the description below. In any case, since Lionel inexplicably made signals with the red light on top, you might want to swap the colored lamps in your bridge to put the green on top, which is prototypical.
Connect the green lamps' terminals to the layout common, that is, the outside rails generally. Connect the red lamps' terminals to the supply, whether the center rail or a separate accessory supply returned to the layout common. Connect the signals' common (the terminal connected to both lamps), which is also the bridge's frame, to the control rail. Connect an extra pair of lamps in parallel with the red lamps, that is, effectively between the supply and the control rail. The extra lamps should have the same voltage rating as the signal lamps but draw twice the current. Your signal lamps should be number 53s, which draw 120 milliamperes at 14.4 volts; so number 57s, which draw 240 milliamperes at the same voltage, are ideal as the extra lamps. An alternative is to use 4 extra lamps in parallel, of the same type as in the signal, that is, number 53s.
You can cover or hide the extra lamps. Or you might be able to find roles for them in some other accessories on the layout where their occasional flashing will be desirable.
I recently was surprised to come across almost this same idea in an old book I was reading. [Raymond F. Yates, Making and Operating Model Railroads, D. Appleton-Century, New York, 1943] It was attributed to Albert C. Kalmbach, the founder of the very company that sponsors this web site. The difference was that he used an ordinary resistor in place of the extra lamp. Lamps work much better in this circuit because the current that the lamp draws varies as the .55 power of voltage, not proportional to it as with a resistor (Ohm's law). So the voltage across the lamp increases almost as the square of the current. The number-53 lamp draws 120 milliamperes at 14 volts; so putting a number 57, which draws twice that, in parallel with the red lamp means that the red lamp gets only 1/3 the current that the green one does when they are in series. Because of the near-square-law behavior of the incandescent lamps, that means that the red lamp gets only about 1/7 the voltage of the green lamp, or about 1/8 of the total voltage. Furthermore, since an incandescent lamp puts out light proportional to the 3.5 power of voltage, the red lamp in that circumstance is only about 1/1000 as bright as the green one.
So you think the wires will actually stretch that far to stack the signals?
As always your help is greatly appreciated.
No, I was trying to make a little joke. You'll have to figure that part out yourself...;-)
Can't really help with advice on the wire length. Are you talking about a Lionel 450, or similar design?
When I first installed our 450 signal bridge, I was going to flip the signal heads upside down on mine to get the green bulb on top. The wiring was so tight I couldn't even do this. So I'm not sure if you can move yours to the center.
About the light change though. It was so easy to do, I didn't even think about it at first. To get the green bulb on top simply unscrew the bulbs and replace them in the proper spot. Green on top, red on the bottom.
Everyone I've seen (vintage and repros) comes with the red bulb on top like a traffic light. Hate to divert this interesting topic, but does anyone know why Lionel places the red bulb on top?
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
I don't know either; but I think it might be the same reason why they call a crossing a crossover, why they identified the NW2 as an SW1, and why they thought that a GP9 was a GP7 with dynamic brakes.
I am going to wire one of these as well but I am using atlas track that is attached to the plywood so I can't use a 153 contactor. I have a few mth scale trax infared detectors very similiar to the lionel 153 ic, Could someone help me out with the wiring to do this. I am going to be using the signal on 2 mainlines so each signal would have to be operating independantly. A wiring diagram would be really helpful. Thanks in advance.
You have ruled out using control rails, right?
Matt: Side note.....I think they got the message. The Dual Track Signal Bridge (6-22329) in the K-Line by Lionel 2009 catalog shows the Green on Top.
Would appreciate your wisdom, Mr. Nelson (I'm also a Nelson, happy to defer). I thought I understood some of the real basics of toy train wiring. I have a newer Lionel single signal bridge (3 posts, A, B and C). I insulated an outside rail on a 3 ft. piece of tubular and traced wiring back to my RW accessory posts B & D. For some reason, I can't get the insulated rail to turn on the red and simultaneously shut the green off. I get no response from wheels entering the insulated zone. I really don't want to resort to a 3-clip contactor. Wd. appreciate a response, and thank you VERY much for that...
First, let's get an understanding of how you're using the RW transformer. If you're using it to run the train, its A or B terminal should be connected to the outside rails generally (the layout common), and U connected to the center rail. If the B terminal is the one you're using, then your train has up to 16 volts available and your accessory voltage, at terminal D is a reasonable 16 volts. If you're using the A terminal for the layout common, the train has up to 19 volts and the terminal D accessory voltage is also 19 volts, which is probably too much for the signal lamps.
I'm assuming that your "newer" signal bridge has no electronics in it, just two incandescent lamps. Both lamps are connected to one of those terminals (the signal common) and the other side of each lamp is connected to one of the other two terminals. In the old 450 signal bridge, the signal common is the metal structure of the bridge. Can you post any more information about your accessory? A link to a manual, perhaps?
It is possible to operate an accessory like this with a control rail, without using a 153 contactor or a relay. After we verify what you have, I'll get into that.
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