A difficult question for collectors

[FJ and G]

Three decades ago, I joined the Marines and my mom sold my Lionels (probably for pennies) to an itinerate collector who came knocking. I sometimes miss those trains, even tho the "blu-book" value of them is probably less than $300. If I knew where they were, an impossibility as I didn't mark them, I'd gladly offer $600 or more.

You've seen collectors' walls of trains before. Where do you think many of them came from? From people with stories like mine, undoubtedly. Picture this scenario. A visitor comes to your open house and sees his childhood starter set that perhaps he sold when he was younger and no longer interested in trains. Then, as he got older, nostalgia set in.

Surely, your collection was acquired legally and in good faith and perhaps you even saved the trains from the trash!

Now, you are faced with a dilemma. You can now see the tears rolling down your guest's face as he sees his childhood trainset; the memories are thick. He offers to pay you three times what they are worth. But you too like those trains. What would you do? Sell them? Keep them?

Here's what I would do. If they weren't crucial to my collection (I'm not a collector or faced with this dilemma), I would sell them, probably for their value and not more. However, if I really became attached to them, I would tell that to my guest and offer him a chance to visit and run them whenever he or she wished.

Somewhere, I hope my toy trains are doing fine and bringing someone some joy. That is the best I can hope for.

Dave Vergun

[Anonymous]

Dave, you could probably purchase this set on ebay or some other on-line auction house. If I were the person you mentioned in your thread, I would ask the owner of the wall of trains if he would sell them to you, or better yet, ask him for some help in finding a set just like it. Not to hard to figure this one out. Back in the early 70's, around 70 or 71, I took my older brother's Lionel 2328 set along with a black die cast steamer and traded them in for some Athearn HO at the local hobby shop. I still have the HO, and run it from time to time. Now that I am older, I went on ebay and purchased three, 2328's, because I was feeling guilty about letting such a classic train go in a moment of weakness when I was young. My brother came to my 50'th bday get together just last month, and brought Xmas pictures from our family from the 50's and 60's, and there in the pictures was the 2328 running around the tree[8D]

[FJ and G]

Buck,

I should have mentioned that while there are many out there like mine, there's something special about your original set, complete with the little dents and missing piece of overhang on the caboose.

I too have my old HO still; but they just sit in a box. I actually canabalize them from time to time, using HO paks for my layout and pulling motors and gears from the engines to make animated accessories. I even strip the rails to use for stuff.

It's mostly the cheapy Tyco and Bachman stuff. I don't think I ever paid more than $12 for an engine. Some F units, an Indiana Harbor Belt 0-8-0, some plymouth switchers. A colorful CB&Q geep and an EL RS-3.

dav

[jkerklo]

Dave, this topic brings up something that has occurred to me when I have purchased a used train: who owned it before, what memories would it bring up for someone, how many kids marvelled as it ran around a Christmas tree.

Most collectors of things: art, cars, etc., keep track of an item's history under the term provenance. A pink Cadillac once owned by Elvis is more valuable than just any old pink Cadillac.

Sometimes an ebay seller will claim "from Madison Hardware" or something like that, but for the most part, the provenance of toy trains is lost.

Maybe we should start a trend with a record of ownership when we sell any of our trains. Then, when we become famous, the train would have more value.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

John K.

Yes, star appeal! Surely, Frank Sinatra's Hudson is worth more than yours or mine! If cattle have records of every place they've been since they were calved, then surely our toy trains should maintain a lineage. Even my beagle has a pedigree certificate which authenticates her as a purebreed beagle.

Now, along with the lineage, why not include a short bio, for example:

1953--Lionel Scout #654328378 was put together by Susie, mother of six, on May 2. During the war, Susie worked with Rosie the Riveter, in an aircraft assembly factory. Her talents were recognized by Lionel and she was employed by that company for 30 years. Her quality approached 95% no-returns.

1954.-- #654328378 was purchased by 8 year old Mikey, who is from Louisville. He saved his allowances, shoveled snow, mowed lawns and kept used all his nickels left behind by the tooth ferry to purchase the Scout.

1955-- Mikey dented the tender during a collision with a trainmaster at a crossing.

1966--Mikey's mom sold the Scout to a collector, Mr Biddle, when Mikey went off to college. Mr. Biddle put the Scout on a shelf, where it remained until his death in 1988.

1988-- and so on and so on.

That way, you could track each piece and perhaps, even find your original! That would add value to collectors as well.

Dav

[jkerklo]

That's the idea!

I think I might be more inclined to purchase a train that had some kind of a history with it, that I could add to. We train collectors could live forever in the minds of future collectors. Something like: "Hey, I just found a train once owned by Dave Vergun. What a find!"

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

I've always wondered where many of my trains have come from. It would be really interesting to know the whole history behind them, like your example that you gave. I did recently buy a very rare train set made by American Machine & Foundry on ebay from a woman who received the train as a Christmas gift when she was a little girl around 1970. The train is in the original box, which is stamped as coming from J.C. Penny in Wauwatoan, Wisconsin. The train itself was manufacturered in Los Angeles and is copied from a Tri-ang Big Big O gauge train. See http://www.tri-ang.co.uk/BigBig/AMF.htm for more information on the train. Having this history really increases the appeal of this set for me! I stole the set off ebay for only 99 cents (it was listed in the wrong category). The woman didn't mind, but was just happy that her childhood train was going to a collector who would enjoy and appreciate it.

[FJ and G]

Sask,

Interesting account; esp. since you actually knew where it came from.

A couple of years ago CTT ran an article on this toy train collector, who collected vintage metal pull trains from way way back in pre-electric days. He stated in the article that he loved the little dents and things because each must have told a story and better still, the pieces were used and enjoyed by kids so long ago.

Whenever someone says they still have their childhood set, I'm so happy for them.

A good thing that there are reproductions and so many PW stuff is still available so at least one can get something similar to what they once had; but it will never be the real deal, if you know what I'm saying.

dav

[fjerome]

dave, i still have my original set (from the 50's) and have it on display right here in my office. i had to repair some of the stuff, but except for the cabin shell of the work caboose and the fact that i had the engine converted to TMCC, it is pretty much original (i still have the old tender whistle motor as i loved that sound...hope to hook it up some day to blow at will). i doubt i would sell anything. everything else on display or on the layout is newer stuff. the other older stuff from my childhood and PW stuff i acquired for my first layouts are put away.

man, you are as prolific a poster as you ever were. [bow]