Did Lionel ever build cars decorated for a private company as "give-a-ways"

[3railguy]

 

Ohaness

Here is the 2555 tanker that I purchased about 10 years ago at a Niagara Falls swap meet. Not sure if its the real deal but its close to what I remember having that I described in the beginning of this thread. Am I chasing unicorns...trying to see if Atlantis really existed?  Please let me know your thoughts.

That is obviously a repaint. The cut line around the AC&F decal is too crude. So is the masking line along the bottom of the cylinder. Lionel masking lines were fuzzy but not like that.

[Ohaness]

Wow...what a great analysis. I appreciate the time to do it and the information about Champ and Walthers decals and paint schemes. I keep on learning.

My early 6414 Auto Carrier, the prior owner did go over the Lionel name and replace it with the Monon rail name in a nice fashon, but again an example of an owner going through a re-do to their liking.

Again, thanks!  

 

[mersenne6]

   Your 2555 is a nicely done repaint.  One of the things that was really frustrating to those of us who ran these trains as kids and teenagers was the spectacular lack of prototype names on Lionel tank cars - Sunoco, the lone twin dome green Cities Service (and you had to wait until the '60's for that one), and Gulf - single dome chemical and triple dome silver tank (and, of course, the Lionel tank car with just Lionel or circle L on the sides).  The paint on all of these cars was very easy to strip and Champ Decals and Walthers made great decal sets complete with painting information so it was common to see these cars, particularly junkers, reworked with new paint and decals.  If you take a look at your car you can see that the builder either didn't apply Solvaset or didn't put on enough because there are numerous air bubbles under the decals (this is very evident in the reporting data "Not for Inflammable Liquids" in the last picture and "Falls, N.Y." in the second one).  When I reworked my tank cars back in my teeaged days (see below for two examples) I made sure to apply a gloss coat to the paint before putting down decals and then, if I wanted the flat paint look, I'd apply a clear flat over everything as a last step.

  The other thing to note is the location of the car data ("tank tested" etc.) - it is prototypically correct - that is it is on the very end of the car.  If you take a look at the Lionel tank cars from the postwar period you will see that the car data is not on the ends but somewhere inboard.  When I redid my cars I did exactly the same thing you see on your car - I followed the Champ Decal instructions/diagrams and put the car data in its proper place.  For some of the reporting data - particularly the 3 dome tank cars - this was a real challenge because Lionel had a cast grab iron right where the reporting data was supposed to go. 

  As a final point - if you look at Lionel cars with decals you can see the decals have yellowed especially decals on tank cars from the period when 2555 was made.  In addition to yellowing also note the die cut nature of the decal itself.  Yours, while neatly done, are not yellow nor are they die cut. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ohaness]

 All:

 

Here is the 2555 tanker that I purchased about 10 years ago at a Niagara Falls swap meet. Not sure if its the real deal but its close to what I remember having that I described in the beginning of this thread. Am I chasing unicorns...trying to see if Atlantis really existed?  Please let me know your thoughts.

Again, thanks to all for the input.

[3railguy]

Josh Cowen, during the postwar years, did have special cars made up for executives of large corporations as desk sets with display boards and pen holders. A few articles have shown up in past issues of CTT about them. The 1958 Hooker tanker in the ebay aution is likely a re-paint. However, it mocks Cowen's style of special cars. The Hooker plaque in particular. The other two Hooker tankers in the aution links were not made for employees. They are regular production modern era cars. One is not even Lionel. It's Atlas.

[mersenne6]

 

 

  The twin dome Hooker tank is a repaint - Lionel never made that car in the postwar period or any other period of which I'm aware.  The other Lionel tank car isn't a postwar item. 

[DennisB-1]

I agree with Dennis. The Hooker logos and lettering appear to be poorly positioned decals --not up to Lionel standards. I seriously doubt its authenticity.

[Ohaness]

Again, thanks for the input.  With all this interesting discussion has had me again ask my two older brothers as to their recolection of the sets history. The 2020 set as best I can tell was purchassed in Richmond, VA, where my uncle lived, used by him for a period, and was then sent to his nephews "up North" in Niagara Falls. My best assumption with this informatiuon is that the Hooker car was added to set when we had it. How my family got this individual car is unknown...my dad had friends who worked there but he is now gone. With train sets being popular at the time, it continues to lead me to think that if Hooker did have these commissioned, it was the car only for give away ...not an entire set.

Again, thanks all!

 

[Train-O]

To All, 

Both of the Hooker paint schemes are pleasant and interesting, I wonder if this type of advertising would have been profitable for all concerned who did this type of business, that's if all of the legalities and retooling were met?  There would have been some vast amount of rolling stock to choose from, especially if local businesses were represented.

It seems that A.T.&S.F., N.Y.C.S. and Lionel profited from this sort of advertisement.

Ralph

 

[dwiemer]

I would be suprised if that "1958 Lionel" tank car is original.  While it may be a 1958 Lionel Tank car, the paint job does not look factory.  Not a bad job, just not what I am used to from the factory.  And yes, they did manufacture specialty sets.  Sometimes, they would just substitute one car with a brand name on it and match it with a regular catalog set and that would make it an "exclusive".  I have seen Lionel, K-Line and other modern companies make "Hooker" tank cars, but do not know of any postwar ones from the 40s-50s.  Another possibility is that it was a custom car added by the previous owner to a 2020 set.

Dennis

[kpolak]

Santa Fe paid $6,000 (approx. $7,000 as noted in All Aboard) for Mr. Cowen to put the Warbonnet paint scheme and Santa Fe logo on the F-3, to help advertise the new Super Chief Train.

Kurt

[Ohaness]

Thanks all for the information. Its greatly appreciated.

[Pennsylvania Station]

Ohaness

Did Lionel (post war –let’s say late 40’s , early 50’s), ever produce rolling stock cars decorated specifically for company’s sales or marketing  groups to be given away to customers or clients and not cataloged or generally sold to the public?   

It's possible, since it is well documented that Lionel made personalized train sets for Macy's deparment stores in the 1920's - 1930's, and later.

 While I'm not aware of what promotional train sets were made in the 1940's-1950's, here is a book that documents the "Promotional Train Sets" made from 1960-1969.

http://www.internethobbies.com/augutoliprou.html

Perhaps a similar book documenting the earlier years will be forthcoming, but I haven't heard of one, yet.

 

[rtraincollector]

check these auctions out

http://cgi.ebay.com/Atlas-O-Scale-3-Rail-Hooker-11-000-Gallon-Tank-Car_W0QQitemZ220407620666QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item335151643a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1958-LIONEL-Hooker-Chemicals-6465-Tank-Car-O-O27_W0QQitemZ400048241476QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item5d24bbbb44&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lionel-26194-Hooker-Chemical-Tank-Car-NIB_W0QQitemZ380118100415QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item5880cde9bf&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A200

 

Just a few that are on ebay under the search word of hooker in the oscale area.

[rtraincollector]

Back in the 40's,50's, and 60's it was very common for Lionel, marx, american Flyer to make train sets for like sears or Maceys that was sold just thru them and would have like a Macey's boxcar in it or in sears a sears zienth boxcar and they did this for other company's as give aways by the company usually for employee's or special maybe customers. But having the 2020 engine in the set would surprise me as that was a top dollar engine back in its day and still brings a good price on ebay or shows. But Maybe just the car as I've understood companies to order just a special run of a certain car. And sometimes by them wanting what lionel required as minium order but lionel didn't do a car in that color could be a reason lionel came out with a car like that for there outfits but just didn't have maybe hooker niagra  decal on it. Its all posible what was done back then as lots of the records were lost/destroyed and still odd items show up from time to time.

[Ohaness]

Did Lionel (post war –let’s say late 40’s , early 50’s), ever produce rolling stock cars decorated specifically for company’s sales or marketing  groups to be given away to customers or clients and not cataloged or generally sold to the public?

Here is why I’m asking.   When just a very young lad, my brothers and I were given a Lionel set from an uncle who outgrew it.  Yes, it was the 50’s. The set was pulled by what I believe was a 2020 Loco. One of the rolling stock was a single dome tank car (orange and black) that had been decorated with the Hooker Chemical decals and Niagara Falls on it. I lived in Niagara Falls NY, where Hooker had a plant, and yes, they had roughly similar looking tank cars in their rail yard.  The set was loaned and just disappeared.  I eventually was able to get back (many years later –late 60’s) the transformer and some 027 track and that’s it.  

In the 80’s when I started to “put together”  a set of good quality post war loco/rolling stock for my children, I found  at a train show,  a Lionel 2555 tanker with the Hooker decals (including Niagara Falls), the orange and black paint, just like what  I remember owning.  I certainly do not believe its my original car.

This brings me back to the original question…did Lionel create these back in the day or were these created by some local hobby shop or dealer  or collector did back when train sets were so plentiful?