Zepheryx,
I was merely explaining to Jack (Rock Island 52) what thread it was that YOU were refering to, NOT whining about anything, it seems that we were each responding to his confusion at the same time.
As you stated, your idea of charging, more for children was not popular with many people, myself included.
People take strollers to all kinds of places, train shows included, I would suspect, so that they would not have to carry children if they were to get tired, as well as making them easier to control, so that they are less likely to grab/touch things that they shouldn't. For me, no strollers don't add anything positive to the experience, but neither do I see that many strollers at the shows that I attend, nor do I find that they create a substantial problem either. They are just a part of life, and no more than a minor inconvenience to ME, in MY experience.
Maybe, train shows are a different experience in the Mid-West, and on the East Coast, I don't see many strollers at them, nor do I notice, DA STINK, as another, Respected member of this forum has mentioned.
I am Sorry, that Train Shows have not been as Enjoyable an experience for you that have been for ME.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Challenger3960 - The idea of the past thread that you now reference was that if people had to pay to bring the kids in, then they had kids who wanted to & were able to appreciate the show & would likely not cause a problem. AND since you seem to want to whine about that thread again, explain strollers at train shows. Zephryx
Jack,
There was a thread awhile back in which the poster suggested charging a HIGHER admission for children, in the Hopes of having Fewer children attend as the tend to get in the way, and are generally inconvenient to have around at a train show. He felt that they would be more enjoyable as an Adult only enviroment. That Idea flew ALMOST as well as a lead ballon,
No. I'm talking about a thread that I posted 2-1-09 - "Pay to Play Train Shows". Turned out to be VERY unpopular. Zephryx
Are you talking about the responses in this thread? Ya got me stumped. Jack.
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Where were all you people when I posted the idea of charging a premium or at least equal admission fee for kids under 12 at train shows? Dads & Grampas resoundingly condemned this idea as being, among other things, un-American. I didn't see any mention of the "ask before you touch" policy in those posts. Zephyrx
Some nice replies here. It gives me greater insight to how others view the display and selling part of trainshows. I just came from a men's group breakfast that we have a the church, and I told some of my friends there of my encounter on Saturday. We had a chuckle out of it. One said I wouldn't have felt I had attended if I hadn't got yelled at after seeing the others get it. I just never encounter that before, and it made me feel awakard. Had the vendor said politely they would prefer items not be touched, or other, I would have apologized and continued the show. It was a good show, and I did purchase some things. Anyhow from my presepective my trains are a hobby and supposed to be fun.
Thanks for your replies,
Alan
From my years of flea market and Gun shows you have some options
Bring a helper
Cover the table and put up a sign as mentioned
Offer to watch the table next to you when they get up is they will do the same for you. I know you take some risk but buy and large that guy is in the same boat you are and will treat your items like he wants his treated.
I guess in that situation a bucket under the table would be helpful, along with a couple of extra napkins.
i put a plastic cover over the table with a sign, back in five.
What does an exhibitor do when they are alone and have to hit the mens/ladies room? Maybe constipation or a bursting bladder is at the root of all this train show evil.
Jack
Train shows are fun! Yeah you take a little bad with the good but overall, come on, its fun!
Ive been a buyer and a seller, and you know what, just a touch of common sense goes a long way.
I see no problem with a sign asking buyers to ask before handling some items. on the other hand if you dont want your PW GG1 with pristine stripes to go from LN to good over the course of the show, dont put it out on the fron of the table. Alot of attendees have no idea how to handle trains, but they dont need to be yelled at. Stay at your table and keep an eye out.
The worst experience I have witnessed (and thank goodness it didnt happen to me) is the guy next to me selling, was all set up with some nice stuff. the guy next to him arrived late and somehow in the rush to set up, the end of my neighbors table collapsed, sending all his trains to the floor. the new guy just looked at him and said "sorry bud"
As a buyer I have always asked before handling anything, even if looked like a beater...one mans treasure and all that. It takes a second and you establish a repore with the seller immediately.
I too go to lots o shows, with YORK being the biggest, along with gun shows. I have learned sometimes the hard way,getting yelled at, to always ask before touching items. Some of these people value their items even though you and I feel they are worthless. I guess its all in the eye of the beholder. I am going to the Allentown Train Show on saturday. Its a great show with lots o vendors their. Seems like one vendor is always there that doesn't want any of there stuff touched. As to say this is ALLL mine, see what I have but you can't have it. Last year the vendor really scoulded my buddy who picked up a tank car of AF, boy she really tore into him. Maybe this year since we are going again, we'll pick up one of her items every hour,just to see her explode? Just joking but sometimes these people need a reality check.
The other big annoyance is strollers.......
Along with what FIFE, said about DA STINK..... but that's another story.
laz57
It sounds to me like you are "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". You shouldn't let a couple bad apples spoil your fun or you'll never enjoy yourself.
I have been to dozens of train shows over the past several years and all have been enjoyable experiences. Sure, I buy some things from Ebay but it's purely for practical reasons, there is no fun it. On Ebay there is no friendly exchange with the vendors, no looking up close at the merchandise, no test running of the engines, no layouts to look at, no workshops to attend, no social gathering with your friends. I love train shows!
Alan - I like this topic being opened up, and you touched on some good points, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The attendees need to learn two words, "May I?"
Parking lot attendants sending you out to east Egypt when there are a hundred spots already vacated.
Food at YORK . However, food at Howard Zane's show .
Charging full admission with 90 minutes left in the show. On that note, children are children UNDER THE AGE OF 18!
Vendors who have to be hunted down to ask a question, or make a purchase.
That guy who obviously saved money for the trainshow by not buying soap.
Alan: Sorry to hear about your sad experience.
Train shows, like other open markets and exhibitions, do span a variety of personalities. I think that most of us ask before touching. It is sort of an unwritten "understanding". However, there are the "touchers" for the sake of feeling and there are the "touchers" for the sake of, shall we say, taking.
While I cannot condone the vendor's actions, I can see their possible frustrations. Perhaps, they had a previous unfortunate circumstance or maybe, in these tough economic times, sales were not as expected. Then, again, maybe he was just one of those "#%&#" guys!
I guess that the really sad thing about the day was that your son was exposed to such encounters.
I, myself, am not able to attend as many shows as I would like to but, from my experience, this might just have been "one of those to be forgotten" days. Please don't boycott future shows as these venues are great places to learn about and enjoy the hobby. All the best.
If items are neatly displayed, I ask if I may pick up an item. If it seems that nothing has a price on it, I just move on. I go to a lot of train shows, and "do not touch" signs are not that common. I usually see them on rare items in very good-plus condition. The above also applies to the non-train flea markets I go to.
I have been to many shows and I matbe the only one but I always ask before picking a item up. I just think it's good and right thing to do. Most trains are old and sometime might already be broken. I had a couple of experences when I asked to pick something up the vender explained it was damaged or broke to becareful. I think it just a good idea to ask first ask even if a sign is not posted.
I’m new to the hobby and attended my third train show last weekend (Great Train Expo) and saw both sides of the coin.
One vendor had some well-used O-gauge rolling stock, as well as some used O and O27 track. Midway through the day, he put up handwritten “Do Not Touch” signs, even on the beat-up stuff. Needless to say, people began walking past his booth. Once the signs came down, I even bought a 027 uncoupler section in good condition for $7.00, which I thought was a pretty good deal.
Another couple had a decent selection of used HO rolling stock. One kid with his mom broke something on one of their items and they both shuffled off quickly.
My point is the vendors have to walk a fine line. “Do Not Touch” signs will drive away potential customers but at the same time, if buyers are not forewarned, they can likely break something and not be held accountable.
I had the opposite experience this weekend, at a public show outside of Ann Arbor, MI, about 2-hours before close. All the vendors were very courteous and asked if they could help me. No one got crazy when I picked up items for inspection, and there was absolutely no yelling.
It may just be the show you attended.
Kurt
I am a regular seller of HO, S, and Lionel items at the local train shows here in Michigan. I have some rare items, delecate items, and toy items. I have had sellers next to me damage items during set up more often than buyers breaking items during handling. However, this happens, and I don't go off the deep end. I just quietly repair them as needed. I always bring a tool box with me. The rare items I will keep in the box or leave a sign on it, please do not handle. This works fine, as only interested buyers will inspect and or buy.
As a buyer I always ask before I touch, especially if I look at the person and he has a permanent angry scowl...but in the long run it is just a common courtesy. Sellers need to be less abrasive if they want to sell an item though, if I had been spoken this way at a show I definitely would not buy from that person again.
Don't be warded off however, train shows are still alot of fun, and still have the added advantage over EBAY as you have the option of inspecting a piece, running it, and not pay the shipping cost.
It's a defense mechanism. They want people to think their over priced junk is valuable.
Alan......I don't disagree with you about the manner in which a correction was made. Rudeness has no place from either the selling end or the buying end. Perhaps a sign requesting interested parties "Do not touch, ask for assistance" is in order. A train show is filled with folks who are knowlegeable and careful and also those who are not.
But the woman HAD to plunk her bag on the display table where freestanding items were being displayed, and not on the floor? Some items are more fragile than others, or the items might get accidentally relocated onto the floor. The vendor was trying to protect the items on display from unnecesary carnage. Perhaps a sign is in order for the masses in a venue such as this.
I don't assume items openly displayed are for handling unless I ask first, even in my train store. Simply picking up a postwar steamer incorrectly, for example, results in bent hand rails or worse. I too would always want to look something over carefully before purchasing it, but not before asking to look it over.
Your description of some sellers reaction to customers behavior illustrates the value of having some shows open to the public, and others closed.
When I have a table at a public show, while I would rather folks not do so, I am prepared to have people touch the trains without asking (usually handling them improperly), or to even place their shopping bag on top of my merchandise. So I do not bring collector grade or even particularly nice operator stuff.
On the other hand, folks attending private shows should know better than touching someone's trains without asking first, and hopefully know how to pick up a train, such as not grabbing a GG1 by the stripes. They certainly should know better than to place a shopping bag on top of someone's merchandise.
I am not a big contributer to this forum, and not as active in the hobby as I once was. I still maintain an interest in trains and like to see what is going on in the hobby. At one time before we moved, I was in an area where I was in easy commute to several train shows, I was most active then, and enjoyed the hobby. After that it was mail order, a group of friends, and an occasional train show when I was within easy driving distance to it, or the group planned a trip.
Saturday, I had a trip planned with my 16 year old son to visit a school he is interested in. I suggested we make a day out of it, and an hour away, and on our way was a train show under a name that I had attended in the late 80s early 90s. I thought I had always enjooyed them, and this would be a good opportunity to stop, and see first hand how others are enjoying the hobby.
We stopped, and it looked like the show was well attended. Inside I meet some good vendors who took the time to talk to you. I was really impressed with the Williams trains and some of the electronic things I saw.
As we walked around we got into an area where older equipment was displayed, and looked like it was for sale. Some objects had do not touch signs on them, but not all. As I was looking at something I heard this lady yell at someone else about 15 to 20 feet from me. She had stopped momentarily and placed a plastic shopping bag on the table while she went into her purse. It didn't appear to be heavy or large, just a plastic bag with some purchase in it. She got the riot act read to her. We went on. In the next ailse my son was looking at something, and the vendor there was rude to him. A few minutes later I was standing there talking to a vendor, and a lady well dressed and mannered came over to her husband who was standing next to us, and complained about some vendor who was rude to her, and she was interested in purchasing what she was looking at. After going our ways, my son and I came to a table and were looking at some items on the table. I was explaining to him what it was, and how it is made. I picked up the one item to show hime something about it, when I got read the riot act about touching. I told the person they shouldn't be openly displaying it if they didn't want it touched. I didn't see any sign, and if I were going to buy it they would want me to examine it first, as they wouldn't want to give me back my money after I purchased it and then examined it.
Needless to say, I had enough train show at this point. I stopped one more place to talk to a vendor about electronics, who had been busier earlier, and then we left. I was happy with our purchases, and the rest of the day was good, but i definitely wouldn't go back to that trainshow.
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