I have (4) 223 standard gauge automatic non-derailing switches. How do you wire these up to use fixed voltage from my Z transformer?? There should be (1) wire comming out of the switch that goes to the A, B, C, or D post on my Z transformer. I have no idea where the other end of this (1) wire goes to inside the switch. There are about 7 different solder points it could possibly go to. I want to make sure I solder it to the right one. Anyone know which one is the right one?? And should I use braided flexible wire to do this?? Thanks.
I don't have a schematic nor an example of these. However, I suspect the wiring is fairly simple. There are probably two coils. One end of each coil is probably connected to one of the control rails and to one of the terminals. The third terminal is probably connected to the other (non-control) outside rails generally. The other end of both coils is probably connected to the center rail. If all of this is correct, you need to disconnect both coils from the center rail and connect them to the transformer terminal.
If there is a lamp in the turnout, it is of course connected between the outside rails and the center rail. If you want also to power it separately, you will have to disconnect it from the center rail and reconnect it to the transformer terminal along with the coils.
If this turnout does not also include switches to disconnect the coils from the control rails after the turnout is thrown (like an 022), you should understand that a train stopped on the turnout will probably burn out a coil. If this is the case and you still want to go ahead, there is a fairly simple capacitor circuit that you can use to protect the turnout.
Bob Nelson
So, basically, everything that is soldered to the middle rail inside the switch, I have to unsolder it and route it to the transformer terminal?? Yes, I have 222 controllers already wired up to them, ready to go. thanks.
You do understand the warning in my last paragraph, right?
Yes i do. I got 1 of them working by fixed voltage. There is only 1 wire inside the switch that goes to the center rail. So I unsoldered it and routed it to the B terminal on my Z transformer and I keep it the trottle at half throttle. It works great. Light does light up and snaps very nice. I have no problems because I use the 222 switch controller to activate the switch to throw it. Thanks.
You are saying that if I do not have a 222 controller I will burn out a coil if a train stops on a switch?? Why is this?? I have my transformers in phase and I run my trains at half throttle.
Try throwing the turnout and holding the controller handle to the side for a second or two. Does the turnout continue to try to move the points? If so, that is what it will also do when a train is stopped on the turnout. The coils are not designed for continuous operation and will burn out in short order if that happens.
As I said, I have no detailed information about the 223 turnouts. It may be that they include the feature that was later included in the 022 turnouts, whereby the coil is disconnected by an internal electrical switch after the points move. Those 022 turnouts can be used with constant voltage without any risk and in fact come with a plug meant for that purpose. If your 223s show no indication of continuing to push the points after they first move, yours are safe to use with constant voltage also.
On the other hand, if they continue to force the points against the stock rail (and probably hum a little while doing it), you need to be very careful or do some more wiring. Lionel may have deliberately wired the coils to the center rail in the hope that there would be no track voltage when the train was stopped on the turnout. That's not foolproof, but it does help to keep the turnout intact.
By the way, having the accessory transformer in phase with the track transformer doesn't matter. In the case of turnouts and other accessories that use the outside rails of the track as their common, having the accessory transformer out of phase with the track transformer is actually a good thing, since it reduces the voltage drop in the rails.
I use the 222 controller only for an instant second when I want to throw a switch. I know having the controller held for more than 5 seconds will burn up the coil. I never stop a loco on a switch anyways or at any point on a switch. I kinda have to glide over switches. Because my rails to my switches are tarnished due to age, but I do have all new MTH track. I have posted a thread on cleaning the switches and it seems to work well. But, if i stop a loco on a switch I cannot get the loco moving again, unless I push it along. Thanks.
If you do stop on a turnout, be sure you get that locomotive moving or shut of the accessory voltage within your 5 seconds. And don't forget that it's not just the locomotive but any part of the train, locomotive or cars, stopped on the turnout that burns out the coil. Good luck.
When my train goes across the switch, No hum or whatever comes from the switch. All I hear is the hum from the (2) Z transformers. They are only activated when i throw the switch, otherwise they do not operate on their own. Because there was a set of 223 switches on ebay with the fixed voltage wire comming out of the switch, he never had any problems and he had this done 20 years ago. Not that I am saying you are wrong. I too am a little worried about messing with the electronics of the switch itself. But, anything to make operating my layout easier. I will try a few things and see how the switch reacts. Thanks.
The anti-derailing feature is accomplished using "control rails". The wheels of the approaching train connect a control rail to a normal outside rail to do the same thing as the controller, to throw the turnout. If that feature has been disabled, by disconnecting the coils from the control rails, then you have no danger of burnout from operating with the constant accessory voltage; but you have no anti-derailing feature either. Will your turnouts throw when a train approaches in the trailing-point direction?
You have said that your turnouts are 223s. The 223 turnout differs from the 222 in that it has the non-derailing feature that the 222 lacks. The same controllers (and many other types of controllers and momentary switches or pushbuttons) would work with either type.
Yes, My switches do switch when the train approaches. This is a feature these have that my 222 switches do not have. But, the coil does not continue to throw the switch continuously. Only throw the switch once into the right direction. I did not use the 222 switch controller to throw the switch, it threw automatically as the switch was the wrong way as the train approach, then threw the right way for the train to go by. No problems. Motor cover do not get hot at all. I have the right bulbs in the switches as well. Thanks.
You say, "I know having the controller held for more than 5 seconds will burn up the coil." You confirm that your turnouts do still have their non-derailing function. My point is that, if both of these are true, having a train on the turnout is the same as holding the controller and that therefore having a train on the turnout for the same length of time will also burn up the coil.
But, the switch does nothing when the switch is the right way, so the train can go through the switch. I hear no hum from the switch or flickering of the lightbulb from the switch. These switches are from 1932, they are old, and I know the technology was not that good back then. They are not like 022 switches, but have similiar electronics. I mean i do not have the fixed voltage knob at half throttle all the time, only when I need to throw a switch. This is so I dont have to put my loco's off track. Some of my loco's lack a neutral in their E-units. Very sticky e-units. Thanks.
lionel2But, the switch does nothing when the switch is the right way...
But, the switch does nothing when the switch is the right way...
Try rolling a car through with nothing else running. You will hear a hum as the coils are energized, whether the swivel rail is already in place for trailing point traffic or not(in which case the swivel rail will snap over).
When the insulated outside rails are bridged by axles, the circuit is complete and the coils will be energized - note the gaps in the outer rails to make insulated sections:
The "5 second rule" is probably a little conservative, if you have the constant voltage set at just the level to give good action you should have good results without failure. Those early coils are very robust, but really be careful to not park any part of the train on the switch for a long stretch.
Folks have been parking idling trains on 1122/1122E & modified 1121 switches for a long time, myself included(25 1122/1122E's on my now ~37 year old layout) & I've not had any fail yet.
Rob
Cool, Thanks alot. I will do so and not park the train on the switches. And by the way, Nice pic from ebay switches that sold last week. I had my eye on those 4 switches, but they had metal peices added to them, so i did not bid. Thanks for all the help.
Simply detach the wire from the center rail and feed it thru one of the holes in the bottom cover on either side of the switch motor. Then you can have constant voltage on the two solenoids and lamp. 223 are non-derailing. 222 are not. Folks who know nothing about Standard Gauge switches should not post on this topic.
pathe Simply detach the wire from the center rail and feed it thru one of the holes in the bottom cover on either side of the switch motor. Then you can have constant voltage on the two solenoids and lamp. 223 are non-derailing. 222 are not. Folks who know nothing about Standard Gauge switches should not post on this topic.
lionel2 Yes i do. I got 1 of them working by fixed voltage. There is only 1 wire inside the switch that goes to the center rail. So I unsoldered it and routed it to the B terminal on my Z transformer and I keep it the trottle at half throttle. It works great. Light does light up and snaps very nice. I have no problems because I use the 222 switch controller to activate the switch to throw it. Thanks.
OK, thanks for confirming that procedure outlined by "lionel2" 5 years ago, but what about the more pressing issue of whether power to the coils is cut after the swivel rail / switch has thrown to prevent overheating?
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month