Chief....I hope you are paying attention because you need to see how I solved my problem with the MTH O-72 Realtrax Switches. Oh!! What's that? You say the Chief is off goofing off fishing at the lake? Anyway, here goes.
A little history about the MTH Realtrax Switch Problem:
The Chief and I installed a bunch of MTH Realtrax Switches on our layout. I have 12 MTH Switches and the Chief has a few more. When I started my layout, Fastrack by Lionel had not been born. About half way through the building of the second phase of my layout, I started to notice that the newer track did not fit as well as the old. The Chief was seeing the same thing as he connected his Realtrax. (Incidentally, someone in the last month provided a history about the manufacturing changes of Realtrax....THANK YOU!)
The Chief and I really became upset when the new O-72 Realtrax Switches started not to work. The Chief had switches that the switch motors were DOA. I opened a box of a supposedly new switch and discovered it had been reconditioned. Then I started seeing derailments at two brand new O-72 switches. Two out of my six O-72s would derail certain types of locomotives including BEEPS, Post-war, and Williams. After watching a small new Lionel Steamer ride over the frog and derail, I said something has to be wrong with that switch and not the engine.
Here is the MTH O-72 switch that was derailing random locomotives. Look at the gap between the back of the wheel flange and the guard rail. The car is an MTH tank car.
Needless to say when I measured the gap between the guard rail and the main rail on an O-72 switch, it was the same as on the O-42 switches by MTH. Logic says that on a straight section of track, the gap between the guard rail and the main rail would be the smallest. On sharper turns, the gap should be the widest.
To check to see if the gap width between the guard rail and the main rail was too large and causing the opposite wheel to ride over the frog, I put three (3) layers of 7 mil electrical tape on the guard rail, as shown below:
Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum.
Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..
Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR
TCA 09-64284
Congratulations on your great analysis, documentation and solution. You should pass this on to MTH.
Thanks Buckeye, Timing couldn't be better. I will be starting a new layout and the customer has MTH 072 switches. So if I have problems, I know know how to fix them!
I am a person with a very active inner child. This is why my wife loves me so. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. OTTS Founder www.spankybird.shutterfly.com
That's a great piece of investigative engineering there Buckeye! Perhaps MTH will send you a nice letter and promise that future switches that you pay retail will be new and not refurbished?
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Buckeye,
Thanks a bunch for the pictures, the time you spent investigating this and a reliable fix. I am in the process of a large expansion on my layout. I started with real trax and got too far, $$$$, in to it change track systems.
Thanks Again
Between you and jefelectric theres hope yet for using MTH track again I may look into that as I liked the color a little better and fact that it was straight at the ends not slanted like Lionel.
still haven't fiigured out which I want to use totally but have decieded aginst fast track and real trax is close to being bye bye but you just gave it another sting to hold on to lol. Now the question is O/O27 or gragraves or maybe MTH but don't hold your breath.
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
sparky Buckeye, Thanks a bunch for the pictures, the time you spent investigating this and a reliable fix. I am in the process of a large expansion on my layout. I started with real trax and got too far, $$$$, in to it change track systems. Thanks Again
Ken....You are more than welcome and you are in the exact position that the Chief and I found ourselves. We started with MTH Realtrax and have too much invested. Old beat up Lionel Tinplate is more reliable and much cheaper.
The derailments only occurred on locomotives front trucks with solid axles. The steamers with a front pilot seemed to work okay. All of my rolling stock except for dummies have wheels that are independent of each other. The lack of exact gauge, being pulled through and the play in the wheels kept the rolling stock on the track through the switch.
You might be interested in this post from last year:
Tom.....If you are building a layout with Realtrax, you need to secure it in place. I have on occasion had everything working perfect and then the next time I ran the trains, a switch would sit there and chatter because the insulated rails are touching a hot rail. The MTH H-connectors or screws seem to work.
RT.....If you have a personality that can handle high levels of frustration and disappointment, go with Realtrax.
Absolutely superior work Buckeye, thank you. This whole switch thing puts me right behind the 8 ball, every piece of track and every switch I own is MTH and they all work, however, when I rebuild I want my minimum curve as o54 and I would love to go to o72 switches with mostly o72 curves. I suppose I could dump all my current track and switches onto ebay and take a horrible hit but it's not something I want to do. Maybe if I wait long enough you will be working in the R & D dept. as a retired consultant for MTH, that would be NICE!!!
Jon
So many roads, so little time.
There are talkers. Then there are do-ers. Well done, Buckeye.
4 PAWS UP!
Obviously, that fix needs to be sent to CTT for publication in the fix and tips, Great investigation and resolution. Getting to the REAL problem and then a SIMPLE fix, doesn't get better than that. Need you to come by my place, I could use your insight!!!
Don
Buckeye Riveter...After several hours of hard running, not one locomotive on the Baltimore, Ohio and Wabash Railroad has had any problems negotiating this switch...
Great job! The availability of good digital pics is the key to understanding what's going on here.
The steps you have taken are much like those that GarGraves switch owners have been through with fine-tuning some models of those turnouts. The guard rail profile, length, & placement is usually the key to a proper operation.
Rob
So the Chief can understand exactly how to hold the plastic in place. Spring loaded tweezers are in the rear.
Great job Buckeye. Tom P, those rails will slip in the switch and make the switch think there is a car in that side. Guy at MTH told me to gap them with dremel tool [I had already been doing that]. I use grinding wheel and gap them back over 1/16.
If the "Buckeye Fix" does not stop the arcing, Liquid Electric Tape or clear fingernail polish will do the trick. He is the section to coat.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Buckeye Riveter . RT.....If you have a personality that can handle high levels of frustration and disappointment, go with Realtrax.
.
Sure do Its called a torch flame on, melt down, flame off
I had the same problem with 0-31 turnouts a few years ago. The rerailer was short of the frog and I was chewing up both the frog and the rerailer. I called MTH and talked to Midge. She aid that she never heared of the problem. I bought new frogs and rerailers and installed them. It happened again. Went to my LHS and brain stormed. Came up with using the inside rail of a track with the same radius. So I tried it many times epoxying a new rail in place of the old. You are right the gap is one of the biggest problems.
My fiial solution after many tries was to take the inside rail out of a track with the sme radius, cut it in half, use a Dremel to cut the bottom inside of the rail so it will go all the way up to the plastic rail holders. Cut and bend both ends so it catches the inside of the wheel. Place it within 1/4 inch of the moving rails and epoxy it in.
It works well and have had no problem. Now I see the 0-72s doing it. I guess I should do all my turnouts before I get to far
Also when I talked to Midge she asked what derailed. I told her my Williams engines at first and was told it was the engines that did it. Not from what I see!
Chief and Buckeye, The layout that we will be building will be open frame bench work and the track will be mounted with foam under it and as we always do, it will be screwed down.
Here is a similar layout that we are working on that is also with MTH track. It is an O gauge, HO and N scale layout for a local hobby store.
Good thread so moving it back up in case some Realtrax users did not see it.
Chief...........Incidently, I was hearing a "bump sound" from certain engines as they passed through the switch. They didn't derail. I'm not hearing the "bump sound" now after the modification.
Used a black felt tip pen to color the white plastic.
Tom....I think that layout will look good when completed and the store will see more interest in trains with a running layout.
Buckeye ... is'nt it a shame a huge corporation in business for bucu years with 7 figure paychecks going to designers and millions upon millions of dollars in computers and programs can't get a ordinary switch right ???? No if they accept and use your idea they should send you a case of everything they make for free !
Ole Timer Buckeye ... is'nt it a shame a huge corporation in business for bucu years with 7 figure paychecks going to designers and millions upon millions of dollars in computers and programs can't get a ordinary switch right ???? No if they accept and use your idea they should send you a case of everything they make for free !
Ole Timer....sometimes the best reward is in getting emails and/or posts like yours. Thank you.
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