A NEW MTH REALTRAX SWITCH............NOT

Buckeye.....If that's a NEW switch,  I'd hate to see an MTH reconditioned one.  That's not a cheap item.

Chuck

These Realtrash switches came from MTH like that?  I'd say they are recycling parts from prior returns.... 

I didn't say word.

Quality Control????????

Buckeye Riveter wrote:

The store said they would send me a new switch.

Nothing in the post indicates the "new" switch came from MTH like that:  the store where he purchased the first switch provided this as a replacement - not MTH.  Or am I misreading?

Cubster wrote:

Buckeye Riveter wrote: The store said they would send me a new switch.  Nothing in the post indicates the "new" switch came from MTH like that:  the store where he purchased the first switch provided this as a replacement - not MTH.  Or am I misreading?

Original post did not indicate or infer that MTH provided the replacement.  The switch came from the store he bought the original from.  We also don't know that the store was aware of the issue of the item obviously not being new.  All of the packaging/packing seems to be there so the store may have assumed the unit was new.  It's not clear who screwed up but it is clear the item isn't "fresh from the factory".

chuck wrote:

Cubster wrote:  Buckeye Riveter wrote: The store said they would send me a new switch.  Nothing in the post indicates the "new" switch came from MTH like that:  the store where he purchased the first switch provided this as a replacement - not MTH.  Or am I misreading? Original post did not indicate or infer that MTH provided the replacement.  The switch came from the store he bought the original from.  We also don't know that the store was aware of the issue of the item obviously not being new.  All of the packaging/packing seems to be there so the store may have assumed the unit was new.  It's not clear who screwed up but it is clear the item isn't "fresh from the factory".

I paid for a new switch, I received a switch that didn't work.  It was returned.  I then received a re-furbished switch.  I have not been given a deduct for the refurbished switch  as of this date, but I have asked. (I should know on Monday the store's position.)    I really don't believe the store knew it was refurbished.  I didn't realize it was refurbished until I started to hook up the connections shown in the photo.  I have been dealing with this store several years and if they have a used item in the store, they mark it clearly used.  They have been very honest with me in the past.  The box, packaging and paperwork were identical to a new switch.  The switch was "tied" into the packing identical to every new switch I have received in the last 8 years. Even the switch lantern was turned the wrong way, a common observation the Chief and I have both documented from unpacking many MTH factory fresh switches.

Bottom line, in Ohio our consumer laws say, when you buy new, you get new.  You do not get refurbished, used, seconds, etc.   

From a respected Ohio law firms web site:

The main consumer protection law in Ohio is the Consumer Sales Practices Act. Ohio consumers have a right to be treated fairly by businesses. Businesses are not allowed to deceive customers. When consumers' rights have been violated, they may be able to rescind, or undo, the deal, and get their money back. If the business engaged in unfair or deceptive acts that have already been ruled to be illegal, the consumer may receive three times their damages. If the business knew what it was doing, but acted unfairly or deceptively anyway, a court may order the business to pay the consumer's attorney fees. If you were subjected to unfair or deceptive acts, you may be entitled to $200 from the business, even if you have no damages, just to compensate you for your trouble, and to encourage businesses to follow the law. These consumer-friendly parts of the law help to prevent unfair business practices, and to encourage consumers to enforce their rights, even if there was not a significant loss.

Remember, different states have different laws.

How easy is it to do file a complaint in Ohio?  https://agcares.ag.state.oh.us/public/landing.aspx

Pretty easy!!!!  (Especially when compared to filing the income tax forms in Ohio.)

 

Buckeye.... I clearly understood , what you said, THE FIRST TIME.  I don't see where it's a complicated understanding. The NEW, replacement switch, in NEW packaging, sent from an MTH dealer, was a piece of reworked junk. The repair job wasn't even professional. Period.

Chuck

ChiefEagles wrote:

I didn't say word.

 Yes, but you started it!!!

Talked to the store manager today and he was upset.  As he said, we both have eaten up money sending the replacement back and forth.  He confirmed that the switch was supposed to be "factory fresh".   They didn't remove it from the box.  In fact, he said he has trouble getting them back in the box and tying them to the plastic packing. He has asked me to contact MTH directly and then call him back.  Now where is that number for Customer Service at MTH.

That would be the Customer Disservice Department. 

Monday thru Friday from 12 to 5 [recording says EST] ET.  Once you finally get someone, he was very nice and helpful.  Did mention it was posted on CTT and OGR.  Now, when I was transfered to the person to give me an RA, very business like and "to the point".

May I ask what got you guys into this brand of track and switches in the first place?

Jack

RockIsland52 wrote:

May I ask what got you guys into this brand of track and switches in the first place? Jack

That's a good question, Jack.   I have some 022 Lionel switches that worked great, right out of the box, for 55 years , so far.

Chuck

Same here Chuck.  I have been following the track and switches discussions throughout this forum so that if/when I choose to switch track and switches brand on my next layout from my 1950s Lionel tube stuff to something more realistic looking and at least as functional as what I know, I will be able to benefit from the experience of others.  

My question wasn't meant to call into question the selection judgement of others but rather to understand the advantages and disadvantages of making a change to their preference.  They forgot more than I will ever know.

So my apology to anyone posting in this thread if that is how my question came across.  Once one is committed to a track and switch brand, I, like them, would be seriously inclined to stick with the choice and making it work.

From a consumer standpoint, I too would be inclined to hammer away at any manufacturer to simply make things right and support their product.  I shouldn't have to pay the financial and time price by sticking with them.  Nor should I have to pay the financial and time price by starting over.  There are others like me out there who, depending how this all turns out, will select this manufacturer's products or dismiss them out of hand.

So these guys are thankfully doing the heavy lifting for the rest of us.  And with this bunch, I am confident that eventually their squeaky wheels will ultimately prevail.

Jack

Jack, to answer your question.  Buckeye and Jon both had [still have] this track system when I started getting back into trains [mine had been stored due to no room for layout].  It worked perfectly and looked very good.  Also at that time Lionel had almost nothing in the Fastrack line except standard radius and switches.  I even went to Buckeye's house and watched his layout operate.  I started buying up track and switches then.  When I started building the layout a little over a year and half ago, I had to get lots more track and switches.  The new stuff immediately gave me problems.  Too much money invested to change.  Now Buckeye has expanded his layout and, being consistant, is buying the same "stuff".  Its the newer "stuff" that is failing and poor quality.  Now Jon has not expanded his layout lately and his track and switches are still working fine.  MTH has taken measures to try to cut costs to stay competative.  Center rail is thinner than the original.  Track switches are not of the same quailty metal and etc.  The thing that really "cooks the goose" is their denial of anything being wrong.  I've talked to them.  Nice on the phone.  Are they doing anything to correct these problems.  Probably not.

As Paul Harvey use to say, "Now you know the rest of the story."

ChiefEagles wrote:

I even went to Buckeye's house and watched his layout operate.

I even had a few "older" pieces of track to show the Chief how easy they went together when he was at my house.  During his visit all the switches and track worked pefect.  Last year, when I purchased track for the next phase of the layout, I couldn't believe how difficult it was putting the track together.  Then two of the new switches would not work properly.  Both would not close the curve properly.  One has been trashed and replaced and I fixed the other switch.

Why did I choose RealTrax?  I visited several stores n 2000-2001 and they were all thrilled with the product.  In fact, they did not like MTH ScaleTrax.  Atlas and Fastrack had not started production.   I purchased a circle for a start, tested it, liked it and bought more. 

As I've mentioned to Chief & Buckeye my whole layout is Realtrax (started getting sorta serious 11 years ago) and I've just had wonderful experiences with the switches & track, except for one switch. My layout is done and we love it, it was our first permanent layout and we are very proud of it.

It saddens me to hear of quality control issues with the new MTH product but yet it doesn't surprise me, bottom line for corporations is to make profits and to heck with quality. Pick your business and you will see it, it's rare when you see great quality anymore.

My dilemma--I want to build one more layout while I'm able. I keep telling myself I'm past the point of no return in adding different brands of track or switches, I really should stay with MTH to be consistent but yet my frustration level isn't very high, I expect products to work whether it be a truck, motorcycle, dishwasher or train tracks. Is that too much to expect? I just don't see us starting over with Gargraves or Ross switches and basically giving away our MTH track/switches, it would cost more than I'm willing to spend but yet it's what I would like to do.

Solutions--don't rebuild; rebuild with new track/switches at a huge cost, take up stamp collecting as my new hobby OR roll the dice with MTH. One more option: sell everything, cash out, throw away cell phones, donate the computer to the local school and buy a sailboat and live in the Caribean. Just send my retirement pension, social security check (need to get that started) to a Swiss Bank account :) I would need a simple oval of "train track" at Christmas and one Shay loco to keep me semi sane.

I think I like the last option---yeah right, that's NOT going to happen but I can dream :)

Jon.....Is the video of your layout still on You Tube?

Here it is, I still enjoy watching it---that was a good day with my oldest son, just working together

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7113039967492295449&pr=goog-sl 

I appreciate your candor, guys.  I would have stuck with it rather than change horses too.  Worst case, I would not throw the baby out with the bathwater but rather hold the manufacturer's feet to the fire.  It has to be very discouraging to have to put off an expansion or change until either the general manufacturing defects are resolved or, at the very least, acceptable functional replacements can be provided until the mainstream problem is rectified.

Jack

Thanks, Jack.  As they say, facts is facts.

I asked Jon to post his video to dispell the notion that big layout operators did not build their layouts with RealTrax. 

There have been several large Realtrax layouts published in the magazines, will have to do some research on when they appeared.