Below are photographs of my Father's Lionel set. I would appreciate any info that anyone could provide regarding its condition, usability, approximate value, etc. as well as any other websites that I should check. The date stamped on the caboose appears to be "9-47". I apologize in advance if the photos don't show well. My camera doesn't "macro" very well.
I'm not sure how the set was originally laid out. Don't know what pieces above are original or ???
This is the Unload/Uncouple Switch. The wire insulation is obviously deteriorating and it appears that a cover is missing from the bottom. Is the wire or switch repairable or replaceable?
Type 1033 Transformer. The power cord is worn but still may be usable. I haven't plugged it in and it probably hasn't beeen used in over 50 years.
Track sections. If you can see, some pins have "barbs" on them, some are plain. On the third section from the left, the ties are silver, not black.
Original wire?
Engine
Should there be a cover here?
I assume these wires are for the whistle but I'm not sure where they go or why they're loose.
Thanks in advance.
I didn't post a photo of it but I also have the small glass jar, which is about half full of smoke pellets.
Other than the remote control track, all the track, and the manual switches pictured are Marx.
It very well may be the Marx wide radius track, which forms a 34" circle, as opposed to their
regular track which forms a 27" circle. How many ties are there per each section ?
Some of this Marx track had silver ties, as opposed to black, and the "barbs" refer to the "pins" that hold the track together. Lionel's pins usually have an indentation in them, Marx pins are straight, looking like little nails.
The lock-on, and transformer are Lionel, the lock-on connects wires from the track to the transformer.
I'm sure some other posters will chime in with details on the actual train.
Ken
There is a Marx transfomer with the set but no train. I'll have to check on # of ties. Don't know why two different sets would have been broken up like this.
krapug1 Other than the remote control track, all the track, and the manual switches pictured are Marx. It very well may be the Marx wide radius track, which forms a 34" circle, as opposed to their regular track which forms a 27" circle. How many ties are there per each section ? Some of this Marx track had silver ties, as opposed to black, and the "barbs" refer to the "pins" that hold the track together. Lionel's pins usually have an indentation in them, Marx pins are straight, looking like little nails. The lock-on, and transformer are Lionel, the lock-on connects wires from the track to the transformer. I'm sure some other posters will chime in with details on the actual train. Ken
Welcome to the forum. The uncoupling track with controller can be fixed. Do not cut the wires till you get a replacement and you can "map" where they connect to. Tubular track is very cheap and I would not mess with trying to repair what you have. The transformer is a good one, but you may want to replace the power cord which is relatively easy. From the looks of it, your engine could use a good cleaning and take care of any rust. If you have a local hobby shop that can do this, you may want to go to them. If you want to do repairs for yourself, make sure you get a copy of Greenberg's manual of Lionel Trains 1945-1969. It will give you the information with diagrams to servicing your set. They also have information on keeping your trains going.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
Pages 10 & 11 of the 1950 catalog show your #1473WS train set. It looks like some Marx "O-27" track(it's compatible) has been added to the original set - I see Lionel track, Marx track, & Marx switches.
It looks quite serviceable as a set - the track is the weak link(consider Lionel Fastrack if you will be a "seasonal" operator). The transformer & cord should be gone over carefully. About 45 minutes with a soldering gun, some oil & grease, and the train itself can be up & running probably better than new with modern lubricants. If you are located nearby, I will do this at no cost to get you going.
Rob
Rob,
Thank you for the info and the offer. Unfortunately, I am just west of St. Louis.
ADCX Rob Pages 10 & 11 of the 1950 catalog show your #1473WS train set. It looks like some Marx "O-27" track(it's compatible) has been added to the original set - I see Lionel track, Marx track, & Marx switches. It looks quite serviceable as a set - the track is the weak link(consider Lionel Fastrack if you will be a "seasonal" operator). The transformer & cord should be gone over carefully. About 45 minutes with a soldering gun, some oil & grease, and the train itself can be up & running probably better than new with modern lubricants. If you are located nearby, I will do this at no cost to get you going. Rob
The 1033 transformer has a very good reputation. If the cord is supple, with no insulation breaks, there is no need to replace it. When you hook it up, connect the A terminal to the outside rails and the U terminal to the center rail.
That looks to me like O27 track, not O34. A circle of track should measure 27 inches across, to the outside ends of the ties.
The date on a postwar Lionel car generally indicates the date when that model was first made, not necessarily the date when yours was made.
The two broken wires on the tender are to supply track voltage to the whistle inside. They should be soldered to the lugs on the two center-rail pickups.
There is no cover missing from the locomotive.
Why don't you post the numbers from the sides of all the cars and the locomotive, so we can tell you when they were made?
Bob Nelson
Hi,
Your set looks very much like one of mine which I just set up after 50 years for a grandson and me to run. The uncoupler can be salvaged - new Lionel wire is about $.95 a foot, but I used speaker wire on mine and they now work fine. If you don't have a manual, just follow the wire from the switch to the rail and copy with new wire. The bottom plate is not necessary as long as nothing can get under to short the connectors.
I am using about 16 gauge wire for running the transformer (I, too, have the 1033). 20 gauge wire is working well for my cattle car loader/unloader. My 1951 Lionel owner's manual says you can use lamp or extension cord wire to run from one of the track connector to another. You can do this to eliminate current loss through the old track from one side of your layout to the other. Just make sure the wire from side 1 of one connector runs to side 1 of the other and side 2 to side 2 as well.
I cleaned all my old 027 track and pins with a small wire brush on a Dremel type tool. Then I reamed the inside of the tracks with a small grinding Dremel tool.
I repaired some simple wiring on my 601 diesel locomotive and the blue boxcar with the little brakeman on top, but I'm considering professional refurbishing of the e-units and smoke unit on the steam locomotive.
I see you've got offers of free help from members: that's one advantage of living in a metropolitan area. But I stll prefer the wilds of Wyoming. Good luck.
wyomingscout
Well from what I can see I'll tell you this much
The 2046 engine came with the 2046W tender which you have and it was made 1950,1951,and 1953
the x3464 Merchandising car was made 1949-1952
The 6357 caaboose was made 1948-1960
6465 Sunoco tank car was made 1948-1956
The 6520 search light car was made 1949-1951
Because of the search light car I would say your set was 1950-1951.
as others have stated it all looks fine other than the track. the track looks like you could use it but need to get a scotch brite and go over it and maybe get some new pins and you'll need a pair of needle nose plyers to tighten the ends. the transformer as stated you may want to get a new cord on it. Also the opperating track you need to get a new 3 wire and trace the old out and re solder the new on piece off one piece on its worth the extra time to do it that way believe me .
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
I may be wrong but to me it looks like the 2 wires from your tender goto the center pick up on each truck.
Agressive cleaning of the track may remove not only dirt but also the tin plating, making it more likely to rust. And, because the locomotive has magnetraction, it will attract small pieces of iron, like wire-brush bristles. So I would avoid using a wire brush to clean the track. In fact, the only part that really needs to be clean is the top of the rails. Scotch-Brite is effective and the most abrasive cleaner that I would recommend.
The lightest wire that you should use with the 1033 is 20 AWG to be safe, since it has a 5 ampere circuit breaker.
The 6019 remote-control track has a 4-wire cable, not 3 wires.
There is no "current loss" due to the track, whether old or new. There is a voltage drop due to the track resistance, especially from poor connections between the track sections as are likely with old track whose joints have not been retightened. If you run multiple feeds to the track to reduce the voltage drop, use no smaller than 14 AWG wire for it to be effective, since the track itself is roughly equivalent to 16 AWG.
rtraincollector...Because of the search light car I would say your set was 1950-1951...
As there were no cataloged 2046 sets in 1951 & 1952, and all the cars have staple-end trucks, I'm sticking with the notion position that it's the 1950 #1473WS train outfit he has.
From the Doyle catalog of Postwar Lionel, there is a trainset #1473WS that was produced in 1950 only and contains your 2046 engine, 2046W tender, 3464 Boxcar, 6465 Tank Car, 6520 Searchlight Car, and 6357 Caboose. In excellent condition it is valued at $425. Yours looks to be in good shape with very little wear or scratches. The only part that I can see missing is the 6520 Searchlight Car's lens for the searchlight. The lens should be available for a couple dollars from many of the postwar Lionel parts vendors. The transformer looks fine, I have used many 50 year old Lionel transformers and they have all worked great and should be safe as long as the power cord is not brittle or frayed. If it is, the cord can be replaced without too much trouble. The track looks like 027 Lionel track and most of it looks to be in fair condition. The origional set contained enough track for a simple oval. There are replacement 027 track pins that are easily available at most train stores to replace the missing ones. New 027 tubular track is also available that will look similar and should cost around $2 for each piece. I have used old track with good results as long as the tops of the rails are clean. You can clean the top of the rails with 3M scouring pads or very fine sandpaper but don't use steel wool. I would then clean the tracks with goo gone or lighter fluid. The manual turnout looks to be in poor shape. The engine contains Magnatraction (for extra traction), Smoke and Headlight. The tender containes a whistle that can be activated from the transformer. I would definitely recommend lubricating the engine with oil even if it seems to run OK. You can do this yourself if you are mechanically inclined. Most train stores will have access to a repair person to do it if you don't want to attempt it. Also, clean all the wheels and center roller pickup with goo gone or lighter fluid and q tips and paper towels. This includes oiling and cleaning the wheels of all the cars too. Good luck, I hope you keep the set!
dsmithFrom the Doyle catalog of Postwar Lionel, there is a trainset #1474WS that was produced in 1950 only and contains your 2046 engine, 2046W tender, 3464 Boxcar, 6465 Tank Car, 6520 Searchlight Car, and 6357 Caboose
I can't find any reference to a 1474WS set anywhere in the 1950, 1951, or 1953 catalogs. Is the Doyle reference to this set a "ringer" from the Greenberg/Ambrose published works?
As there were no cataloged 2046 sets in 1951 & 1952, and all the cars have staple-end trucks, I'm sticking with my position that it's the 1950 #1473WS outfit he has.
The track is a mixture of Marx and Lionel. In the picture with 4 pieces, notice the variance in the distance of the end tie from the ends of the rails. It is, left-to-right, Marx, Lionel, Marx, Lionel. The pins on the pieces shown are consistent with this. Marx also had smaller holes punched in the ties than Lionel. A definitive test is which way the rail flanges are folded: Marx folded under, Lionel folded to the top of the rail.
Hi Rob,
Yes, you are correct. The train set is 1473WS. I copied it incorrectly.
Thanks to you all for your informative replies. More questions below Below is a picture that I forgot to include in my original post I found the following info. Beneath that is some info on the 1473WS set that I gathered from: http://www.lionel-train-set.com/1950/1950.htm#1473WS With the information you all provided, I should be able to separate the Lionel track from the Marx track.
1 - 1033 90-watt Transformer
Would it be prudent to open the transfomer and look inside or not? Would contact cleaner be a good measure or would it damage the windings, etc.? Is it simply a matter of removing the screws on top or ?
Sorry about the hard returns and the text wrapping around the photos. I tried to fix it twice but to no avail.
There's really no need to separate Lionel track from Marx. They are equal in quality. But, if you want to, just examine the rail flanges to see which way they're folded, as I described above.
If the cord is okay, I see no need to open up the transformer, unless you experience some problem with it later. There is nothing inside that needs any maintenance.
Just strip and solder the tender wires back onto the terminals that they broke off of on the two trucks. You don't need to replace them unless they are stiff or cracked. It doesn't matter electrically which one goes where; but one or the other might be closer to each truck.
You won't harm the operating car by pulling on the plunger underneath to operate it manually. When you get the 6019 remote-control track working, it will operate the car by pulling down on it with the electromagnet that is buried in the middle of the track. It will be powered from the track by the same AC voltage as the track, not DC.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month