Here's a question for the "experts" on this forum. To your knowledge, did Lionel (or anyone else) make a steam engine tender with a movable (up & down) water scoop beneath the tender? <I don't know if its is called a 'water scoop'. It's the thing that is lowered to gather water from the trough located between the rails while the train is running< As always, many thanks.
yeah what about them?
Life's hard, even harder if your stupid John Wayne
http://rtssite.shutterfly.com/
RT: YOU ARE TOO SWIFT. See my "edit". (I hit the wrong key before I finished the post) Thanks.
rtraincollector yeah what about them?
I for one would appreciate more details. I've seen lots of fixed water scoops, but don't recall any movable ones, if you don't count the ones that got knocked off in derailments....
I read an article that said that "it was lowered to catch the water". That's about all I know about it. Thanks.
traindaddy1 I read an article that said that "it was lowered to catch the water". That's about all I know about it. Thanks.
Sorry, I thought you were asking whether Lionel (or some other toy train manufacturer) made a movable one; and I thought you received an answer in the affirmative, as in "yeah". I must have misunderstood. Tricky language, English.
TD I couldn't resist I open and no question I had to do it lol .
But to your question I believe yes they did lower and raise in real life but as for Lionel or someone making one not to my knowledge as most had a whistle above them so no where for it to go up to hide . I guess they were hand lowered and raised and I bet they lost quite a few along the way when someone for got to raise it back up lol
rtraincollector TD I couldn't resist I open and no question I had to do it lol . But to your question I believe yes they did lower and raise in real life but as for Lionel or someone making one not to my knowledge as most had a whistle above them so no where for it to go up to hide . I guess they were hand lowered and raised and I bet they lost quite a few along the way when someone for got to raise it back up lol
lol lol lol lol lol Gosh! That explains a lot. lol lol lol lol lol. Ain't we got fun? lol
Thanks guys.
The New York Central made extensive use of the scoops and water pans-especially between Buffalo, NY and Cleveland, OH (and maybe other parts of the Water Level Route as well. There were special sign boards along the right of way to indicate when to lower the scoop and when to raise the scoop before the end of the water pan. Since the top of the water was below the top of the rail the scoop had to be lowered below the railhead to scoop the water. That would be difficult to replicate in 3 rail, needless to say. The tenders behind the steam engines had special overflow pipes along the sides so the pressure of the water coming on to the tender did not burst the tanks. My father worked Maintenance of Way for 46 years for the NYC and the Penn Central and spent some time at the pans West of Erie, PA during some of the severe winter storms. He retired the day the Penn Central went bankrupt! The mechanism was activated by either steam or air pressure from a control valve in the cab. Perhaps another older timer than me can indicate which it was.
Mel Hazen; Jax, FL Ride Amtrak. It's the only way to fly!!!
What about the 2046W tenders? These have a lower projection that resembles a scoop?
Kurt
Just this morning, I re-read an article from a Trains magazine - I think it was the one featuring Chicago - on the experience of a fireman helping to nurse a 'sick' T-1 (doubled headed with a K-4 doing all the work) on a long passenger train along Pennsy's main line in Indiana / Ohio. In it, he speaks of nearing the water pans, letting the K-4 take most of the first one, lowering the scoop to get the dregs from the second, but missing the whistle signal to raise it - much to the disgust of his engineer. It was largely ripped completely off by a grade crossing. At the end of their run, engineer noted on his report "Fix water trough" - the fireman went into the trainmaster and confessed all - and survived ;)
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
There's some You-Tube videos of engines blasting through water pans. Wouldn't it be a cool operating accessory - say an engine goes through the 'pan' and it throws up 'smoke' simulating the spray! Gotta tell MTH or Lionel!
The Pennsylvania Railroad used the water scoops as well on some of their tenders, the NYC was not the only railroad to have water troughs. This was before the Penn Central days.
To have an operating water trough I think that you would be able to do that in two rail O gauge and not three rail as the center rail would need to be removed and replaced with the water trough, and rail tiews secured on the outsides.
Lee F.
MEL - DOUG - LEE Thanks for your 'posts'. I appreciated the info.
Heavens to Betsy!
1. Some real trains had water scoops under their tenders;
2. No doubt these scoops could be lowered into the trough and raised again because, if they couldn't, they either couldn't pick up any water or they certainly wouldn't "play nice" once they reached the end of the trough;
3. Lionel (and perhaps other toy train brands) simulated water scoops with fixed (non-movable) plastic gismos positioned under certain tenders. See pic of the Lionel 2046W tender above. These gismos did not raise or lower; in part because of the impediment presented by the center rail, which was not a problem on the real trains that did use the trough/scoop "water on the fly" method.
Everybody OK with this?
bfskinner,
I agree with what you have said about the water scoops on three rail trains. But do you think that it could be a possibility for two rail trains someday to have a water scoop that raises and lowers by command control, as there are pantographs that raise and lower electrically for three rail on the newer GG-1's and EP-5's.
Lee, personally, I think a 3 rail accessory would be better giving the 'effect' of a train going through the pans - check out the videos - the pass-through - especially at speed - is spectacular. I would guess for most layouts, 'viewers' are not placed at such an angle (ie low enough) to see the scoop action - versus some sort of water spray effect using 'smoke' - it sure is fun to speculate about it.
Bf, I think you summarize things right.
Doug, Thanks for the kind words. They're appreciated.
Lee, I'm certain it could be done in two- rail, but I don't expect to live to see it. At my present age and state of dilapidation, I'd be more interested in something that would help get my pants, rather than my pantographs, down and back up reliably. Or my scoops, for that matter.I
bf.......there's absolutely nothing wrong with being both classic and vintage. I have to go now to look for my car keys, reading glasses, and the cordless phone for the fourth time today.
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month