yard cross-overs

[Anonymous]

From our years as a flat and un-senic Lional 0-guage RR we think yard operations offer a lot of play (and training) value. We have a couple of very junior operators coming along.

So, the "re-born" Little River & Hobart features a 17 track flat yard (has anyone ever done a hump yard in tin-plate and made it work?).

Our longest yard tracks are nearly twenty feet. Track to track crossovers at mid-point seem desireable and more prototypical.

All in Gargraves phantom on 3-5/8" centers. All Ross switches. Ross wanted a King's ransom to make custom cross-overs for our yard tracks.

Has anyone had any success modifying or building up cross-overs to suit our needs?

Joe

[FJ and G]

Joe,

Very interesting topic. To my knowledge, a hump yard has never before been attempted. There are only a handful of times this was done in HO scale and currently, I do not believe that nay such working layout exists.

Reg. crossovers, CTT has a nice article on doing what you describe in the May04 issue that will be coming out.

Dave V

[Big_Boy_4005]

Yes to the hump yard, but it needs a pretty good and steep hill on the back side where you want the cars to roll down. This should taper out slowly to flat, and you may have to do something to make sure that you don't damage the couplers if you try this.

I have chopped a lot of switches over the years, especially for turning them into close crossovers. What kind of switches are you thinking of buying or do you have old ones?

[FJ and G]

I'm sorry, actually the CTT article deals with CROSSINGS, not cross-overs.

I'm building my own custom turnouts but I've never attempted anything as complex as you are discussing.

[Big_Boy_4005]

A crossover is simply two switches laid with their diverging legs connected, very common, and no big deal. Both Ross and Curtis and some HO manufacturers make them as single units, but it is much easier to use two seperate switches.

Dave you may be thinking of a DOUBLE crossover. This consists of 4 switches AND a diamond. This is a more complex arangement, but can still be made from components, especially if the pre made ones don't fit with existing track spacing.

By the way, I like to use the term DIAMOND for that piece of trackwork where two tracks cross, and try to use TURNOUT if there is a chance for confusion with an electrical SWITCH in the discusion. No talk of electricity here though,[:)] so SWITCH is not confusing.

[Anonymous]

Ross is now offering the double slip switch, aka puzzle switch. I think these would make good cross overs for that yard. At $99 a pop, they ain't cheap.

Tony

[Anonymous]

i think a o-gauge hump yard would be so cool.

but... is it possible. dont you need to control the speed of the cars as they ride the "hump". how would you do that?

i have over 100 freight cars and i bet you a million dollars that they would all roll down the hump at a hindred different speeds (some would probably come to a stop on the hill[sigh])

in any case... i'd love to see a model hump yard in action!

[FJ and G]

Several interesting topics here that each might have made for a nice post.

1. I've never seen a single-slip switch in 3-rails; now that Atlas and Ross are doing double-slips. I wouldn't attempt to make either one myself.

2. Yes Woodsy, it certainly would be cool--a real showstopper. IMO, it would be easier to do in O than HO because of the momentum downhill of the mass of our rolling stock--esp. die cast types.

You would want the couplers to function well, however. Either ensure all your couplers couple well or perhaps convert to kadees.

Yes, a real showstopper.


Will it ever happen? I kinda doubt it. Would make for hours of fun, however.

Dave v

[Anonymous]

WOW!!
First time I ever posted to a forum and I am greatly impressed. THANKS to each of you for the thoughtful responses.

First the "hump yard" part. I tried one years ago with lionel O-Guage. Even fooled around with electro-magnetic "arrestors" in an attempt to replicate the prototypes (and decelerate the cars). If I'd had photoelectric detectors and could have "pulsed" the arrestors, I think it would have worked. Neither was a possibliity then mainly due to economic constraints.

I added and removed lead to and from the cars. I weighed cars on a gram scale I fooled with that mock-up for hours. (I also replaced a few couplers and in one or two cases whole trucks because it was easier and I had them in stock).

I abandoned the idea and we always worked "flat yard" after that. We had a very prototypical "ladder-both-end" flat yard unti the two principal junior ops grew up and moved away.

Now one of them has the two aforementioned very junior operators and lives only five miles away. He and I are now building what we only (barely) dared dream all those years ago. Don't tell me dreams can't come true.

Thanks Tony for the tip on the "slip switches". I'd missed those in my Ross catalogue. Wil look at them. Not cheap but to do only two or three tracks maybe we can swing it. Biggest trouble with turnouts is the room taken up by switch machines.

Bigboy; Thanks for both posts. I go -way- back in protobypical railroading to when a switch was a switch. Gotta re-learn things to avoid confusion.
You are right. it is the diamond function we are really after. Some aerial photos show prototypical yards with the diamond effect achieved by widely spaced crossovers. along the same yard track so we don't care which way we do it.

Sounds like both Dave and Bigboy have "torn up" exisitng turn-outs etc. Thats new ground for us but I'm certainly ready to try it. Any tips would be appreciated.

Don't forget the 3 3/8" track spacing we used. It allowed us to get in all those tracks but now that we've thought of this cross-over "refinement' (whats that about "proper prior planning??) we are in a squeeze.

We hope this will be one of the finer working yards in model railroading. 4 A&D tracks, a "house track", 4 transfer yard tracks, and 11 classification tracks (that 17 in my original post was a typo). Blocked so that two yard switchers can work at once while main line power arrives and goes off to the servicing area or is called, couples to a drag and leaves.
Turn-outs on the mainline into hide-out tracks (6 trains worth) so an outbound can disappear and stay gone for many operating sessions. One has access to an "armstrong yard" so it may return with a modified consist or different head end power.

When the whole yard area is completed I'll submit some digital shots.

Meanwhile, thanks again to each of you for the help.

Joe

[Big_Boy_4005]

Joe, if you have a track plan that you could post showing what you have, and what you want to do, that would be really cool. It doesn't need to be a photo, just a quick sketch.

The "BOWL" or "CLASSIFICATION" tracks don't usually need crossovers, just a simple ladder at the end away from the hump. The only reason for a crossover there would be for an escape. Most of the time, the switcher doesn't have to go very gar up the track to grab the cut of cars. Remember, the sorting is being done by gravity at the other end of the yard, so there shouldn't be a lot of switching left to do.

If the motors are too big to fit on the surface, you should consider using a type of turnout that uses a motor that can be placed under the layout.

[Anonymous]

Bigboy,
Thanks for your interest and willingness to help. I think however you labor under the impression that I am now trying to do the "hump yard" thing. Negative!! I gave up on it years ago and this one is "in the flat".

I'll cheerfully post our yard track plan but I don't know how to do that on the forum.
Please forgive the "newbie" here and coach me. I do have a flatbed one touch scanner and can scan in a sketch.
I know how to attach a sketch to an e-mail but not how to post one.

We have some old Gargraves switches and we've been buying Ross. I'll even chop down an expensive new Ross or two if it'll work, but not until someone coaches me through the how-tos and what not-tos.

THANKS for the reminder that switch machines can go UNDER the platform. i'd forgotten about that. This one is too low to the original floor to get under but I could (and will if necessary) cut out a panel, mount the switch motor and cover over the panel hole. Good old kitty-litter ballast will cover all. Its an attic layout so we used 2x3 sleepers, 1/2 inch plywood and 1/2 inch homosote over the original 1 ply pine board floor. Trying to make it quieter downstairs than the original L R & H was.
Highest Management was very supportive of the LR&H for over a dozen years and has give her blessing to this project, knowing that there will be a like or even longer period of intense "railroading" overhead this time.

I'll respond do Dave v and Woodsy re: hump yard technology in a separate post.
Joe

[Big_Boy_4005]

Sorry Joe, I did misunderstand you, I thought you were trying to build the hump. I posted some pics of chopped turnouts on the other topic.

Photos need to be up on the web first, and in jpeg format. You will need the URL for the photo where it's stored, and then use the img command. Click on show forum code on the left to see the usage.