Cost per square foot of your layout

[FJ and G]

What is the cost per square foot of your layout?

To determine mine, I took the square footage of my half-built layout (approx 4X25=100 sq ft) and divided that into the total amount spend on trains, benchwork, etc, approx $3,000, to arrive at a nice round figure of $30 per square foot.

Of course, that did NOT include the labor costs (incl. research time), which would probably make that same square foot cost at least $150 per square foot.

Then, to make this analysis even more exciting, I took the total square footage of my house (approx 5,000) and divided that into what my house is valued at (approx $400,000, a modest price for the area I live in), to find the cost per square foot of house equalling $80 per sq ft.

Thusly, my train layout per square foot is nearly twice as expensive as the cost of the house per sq ft.

David Vergun

[Anonymous]

David, you gotta start working on a larger layout so you don't have so much time for this analysis! It did get me looking at how much I'm spending on my 4 by 8 layout, about a thousand Dollars by the time it's done (lots of operating stuff)! Wow, didn't realize how much you can dump into a small layout..... By the way, that's very close to your 30 Dollars a square foot!

[FJ and G]

SF Kent,

After you write up your calculations, be sure to burn the document so that your wife or significant other (or both) don't see your "real" spendings.

Dave Vergun

[Roger Bielen]

I don't want to know. And I especially don't want my wife to even think about it. [:)]

[Big_Boy_4005]

For me, this one is going to be difficult to determine. I am using a lot of materials from previous layouts. I have to add only a small amount of new stuff, so my cost will be unusually low.[:D]

[Anonymous]

There's no way I'm gonna do that calculation. Not even gonna THINK of it. No way do I want my wife to have access to that info, so it ain't gonna get written down.

Not that I've got all that much invested right now...

Tony

[Anonymous]

Yea, I hafta agree.... it's not wise to even think about this. Otherwise, I might never have started it.

[alton6]

A LOT. But, minus the stuff I should logically sell off, and divided by the fun of it all, I feel it's quite a good value.

Carl

[goodness]

There is a related thread on the MR forum that you may be interested in reading. It is presently on page 3 or 5? Same question on cost of a layout. Has some good answers. (especially mine!)

Paul Goodness

[FJ and G]

Goodness,

I haven't been on the MR forum in a couple of weeks. I picked up a copy of MR Planning 2004 and saw the square footage mentioned and decided to do a measurement of my own layout and determine the value. It is an interesting metric in determining your investment.

I suppose you could use it for other items in the house. For instance, my 5X9 (?) pool table cost about $4500. Per square foot, that is a mere $100, still less than my train layout. Per square foot, it also gets more play value per visitor (mostly my daughter's friends).

That would be another variable to put into the formula: play value per square foot based on amount of usage by friends/family members.

For play value my sofa by the tv would win hands down for amount of time spent there viewing the TV. The Beagle also uses it to crash out on.

The bed will probably get more play value than the sofa once I find a significant other.

[jkerklo]

FJ and G,

I don't know about the significant other comparison. They can be quite expensive, even if you get a large one so the cost/square foot is low.

Even if play value is high, upkeep and maintenance are also considerable. Just changing the scenery can be a significant overhead. And, they can be detrimental to your train hobby, demanding more and more attention. Ever take one to the MALL?

Stick with trains, it is a better deal, and certainly a lower cost/square foot.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

John,

The significant other can be comparable to a train layout.

--The couplers work better on some than others

--Both can get you derailed or off on the wrong track

--Each needs to be well lubed in order to to squeak and to provide sufficient chuffs and steam

--Some models are more weathered than others.

Dave Vergun

[jkerklo]

Dave,

The era is also important.

Prewar -- ok for putting on the shelf, but not much else.

Postwar -- A good runner at a reasonable price is a great find.

Modern -- Complicated to operate, expect out-of-box problems.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

Yes, and don't forget the price tag. The expensive ones come with a lot of circuitry and gee-whiz bangs but require high maintenance or they may blow a circuit and then refuse to move, i.e., become frigid.

The cheaper models are more reliable but not as attractive. They will stay with you a lot longer and don't need to be returned as often.

My last two models had the gee-whiz bang options and had to be returned. In fact, I'm still paying for them.

[jkerklo]

Yes, I bought a train a while back and after I got it home it didn't look as good or run as well as I thought. Fortunately, I was able to display it on a table and another collector took it off my hands.

On the other hand, the same sort of thing happened with a significant other and I had to pay considerable shipping costs to return it. No one else wanted it.

I'm sticking with trains.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

For my 3rd purchase, I will be sure to first get the proper warranty.

As a matter of fact, I'm looking into leasing.

Dave V.

[jkerklo]

Maybe we need to be more careful in our selection process, and avoid the impulse buy.

If I had test run the train, its flaws would have been revealed and I wouldn't have bought it. On the other hand, sometimes a train tests well, but will only run erratically when you put it on the layout.

Leasing has its advantages, but you can seldom get any MIB product. In fact, one has to be concerned about a wreck that damages your favorite steamer.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[cnw1995]

Interesting exercise. Let's see, since entering the hobby this Christmas, I've bought a train set, extra 027 track, two manual switches, a short bridge, a spool of wire, a few lockons, a bag of insulated track pins, two plastic road crossings - plus the cost of getting my folks to mail me my dad's old trains and the cost of four 4x8 foam panels probably $340 in all (please don't laugh - this is a huge amount for me). What does that work out to? About $2.70 a square foot I think... I won't count my CTT and OGR subscriptions... ;)

[FJ and G]

Double-heading with a nice caboose in the rear can be exhilerating, but is tiring because it requires shoveling a lot of coal to keep the embers bright.

[jkerklo]

Indeed, one of my favorite consists. Especially with a bay window caboose.

Coal does seem to be a problem, lately. I think the mines might be petering out.

It does help, however, if the engineers get together and make sure the drive linkages are well lubed.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

One of the advantages in getting a nice control system (DCS in my case), is that I was able to turn off the annoying chatter. I like deep engine moans, wailing whistles, and the sounds of the drivers as they work back and forth, however.

[alton6]

This train of thought might face derail in some locations...

[jkerklo]

Yes, some engines do seem to have an excess of annoying clatter, even when steaming up.

I have found, though, that if they are well lubed and you take the grade slowly, clatter stops and both engines can relieve boiler pressure by blowing off some steam at the top of the hill.

I used to have a narrow-gauge logging engine, a Climax I think, that ran well this way. Unfortunately, I deferred too much maintenance and it went back to the factory, never to be seen again. Factory correspondence suggests the engine is running well again, but on a different roadbed.

A better control system may have prevented this.


John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

I find it interesting that locomotives are referred to as "she's"; even when it is the Big Boy.

Also, relating to toy trains, ones on the wall are "shelf queens," not "shelf kings."

Interestingly, in the world of aviation (I saw this on the Wings channel), airplanes that require unusually high maintenance, thus are likelier to be in the hangars than in the air, are known as "hangar queens."

Now, how did I get side-tracked from cost per square foot, or as Alton noted, derailed. I'll try to switch out of this hump yard mode before I have a boiler explosion.

[jkerklo]

We often label things that are fiesty and hard to deal with as "shes:" boats that always need maintenance, cars that look good, but don't run worth crap, engines that require too much coal.

I think Alton is unfamiliar with this yard. As long as we keep train speed within limits, a derailment is unlikely. Just as well, my engine seems to have lost steam.

But, back to layout cost per square foot.

I had the thought of comparing cost/square foot, man-hours/square foot, and play/value per square foot among different modelling gauges.

My experienced guess would be that, for scale hobbies, man-hours/square foot would be quite high, with cost/square foot lower. Play value/square foot would be very low. For those HO layouts I have visited, only the owner seemed to be able to run trains, and always slowly. Scale layouts seem more for looking, than playing.

For the toy trains hobby, cost/square foot might be higher (more things doing something), man/hours per square foot lower (less incredible detail), but play-value/square foot very high. Even kids can run our layouts.

I think these trade-offs are why I have always preferred the toy train hobby for my efforts, even though I greatly admire the scale work.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[CSXJOE]

Like boats and vintage autos:

If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

[jkerklo]

Hey, I just noticed that I now have a blue star; what does it mean?

I know, it was granted for the quality posts on this topic.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

I think they have marked you as someone to keep a close eye on. :-)

[jkerklo]

I think you might be right.

I notice you have two blue stars. Experienced.


John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[FJ and G]

When you are awarded 4 stars, you become a master modeller and those modelers who are beneath you must call you sir.