I've been searching all over the internet for information on Lionel Fastrack layouts and TMCC accessory information. I'm a bit shocked at the lack of information available from Lionel. I ordered the Fastrack book "The Lionel FasTrack Book" by Robert Schleicher, even though the layouts he describes have goofups in them. But I haven't found squat about TMCC setups at the Lionel website. The best source I've found online for how to use the different TMCC stuff is located here:http://www.coilcouplers.com/tmc/tmc.htmlNot only does it tell you how things work, it is an actual functioning CAB-1 and tells you how to program all kinds of stuff and you actually get to see it work on the loco. Now, having said that, I can sure see why all the Lionel people are all ga-ga over the new Legacy Controller. How anyone can use the CAB-1 and know what the heck they are controlling is beyond me. Hopefully, I can get the TMCC stuff like switch controllers to work with the DCS system, or get the DCS AIU to operate the Fastrack switches.
Virginian Railroad
"How anyone can use the CAB-1 and know what the heck they are controlling is beyond me."
It's called a memory.
I've hardly used my CAB-1 since June, however I did use it frequently for a really long time before that.
When I first started up the layout, I would always address the first item I wanted to control. I never had any trouble remembering what I had just addressed for the operating session.
If you're ever unsure of what you're talking to, it takes about two seconds to punch in the address for what you want to talk to just to make absolutely sure.
[sarcastic mode]
I mean, after all, it's not like your getting any kind of visual or auditory feedback from your trains. I mean, it must be so hard not having a little LCD screen to tell you when your train is moving. I know I sure can't tell when the whistle is blowing or when the train is moving or when anything else is happening unless I'm looking at the LCD screen.
[/sarcastic mode]
" The best source I've found online for how to use the different TMCC stuff is located here:http://www.coilcouplers.com/tmc/tmc.html"
Coilcouplers is operated by Neil Young and associates. You may recall Neil Young is an owner of Lionel, so Coilcouplers is part of Lionel. In addition, Neil Young led the design team for both TMCC and Legacy. There are also manuals for all the TMCC components on the Lionel website in .pdf form. Strangely enough they don't address the issue of AIUs :).
"Perhaps some folks only have one switch and one locomotive on their layout and that's why it's so simple for them to use CAB-1"
And some folks have no trouble controlling as many as three or four locomotives at a time, and six switches, while using the CAB-1.
Frankly, most of the time, I use my Legacy remote as if it's a CAB-1-it seems horribly cumbersome to me to have to scroll through a list to find the locomotive I'm looking for when I know the ID number and can punch it in-doing so takes about two second. I call up engines on the Legacy remote by their ID number, the same as I've always done with the CAB-1. In fact, I rarely even look at the LCD while operating trains, other than to check the set point on the speed bar.
Perhaps it would do some folks on the forum well to spend some quality time learning to USE a product(not just a casual trial and dismissal) before they go around bashing it at every possible opportunity.
And, perhaps, it would also do posters of this forum well to refrain from making assumptions about the size of layouts or complexity of operations of other members.
Deputy wrote:Hopefully, I can get the TMCC stuff like switch controllers to work with the DCS system, or get the DCS AIU to operate the Fastrack switches.
opefully, I can get the TMCC stuff like switch controllers to work with the DCS system, or get the DCS AIU to operate the Fastrack switches.
Dep,
I'm certain you would not have any trouble with the AIU and Fasttrack switches. Essentially the AIU just completes the circuit by providing the ground to the appropriate switch motor contact. I have 2 AIU's and they are fantastic. Each AIU will handle 10 seperate switches, and I have 4 situations where I have 2 switches on the track ganged together and connected to one location on the TIU. I have another situation where I have 2 Wyes back-to-back, and have formed a Figure 8. When I switch one of the curve switches, it also aligns the appropriate leg of the "X".
Another benefit is at the end of a session, I select "ALL" and press the "straight" button and every switch on the layout flips back to the default position. I have also used the "Routing Function", enables me to send a train on a "mission" and every switch in the path is aligned, I then have a second "mission" and the train then procedes and follows the new path. That REALLY blows the visitors minds when they see the train making all the "right" moves while I am talking with them or "fixing their drink".
Have fun with it.
Lionel's units will do the same, but they end up being a little more expensive. But they are good as well.
Don
And maybe, MTH saw how well Lionel was doing with TMCC, and, possibly got the idea for the LCD screen from, ............. WAIT for IT.......... DCC for other scales, namely HO & N. Lets just get into another Lionel/MTH argument here shall We?
OOHHH, MY VOTE is for LIONEL being the BETTER product, but your results (Like EPA mileages) may vary.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
challenger3980 wrote: And maybe, MTH saw how well Lionel was doing with TMCC, and, possibly got the idea for the LCD screen from, ............. WAIT for IT.......... DCC for other scales, namely HO & N. Lets just get into another Lionel/MTH argument here shall We?OOHHH, MY VOTE is for LIONEL being the BETTER product, but your results (Like EPA mileages) may vary.Doug
What difference does it make?? They both have GREAT products, and WE are the WINNERS !!!
Talk about childish attitudes, mine is better than yours??? It can't be, I have both !!!!
For those unfamiliar with the Lionel website, click on "Customer Service," then "Owner's Manuals."
Here's the direct link:
http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/Findex.cfm
Type in "TMCC" and all the owner's manuals that are available in .pdf form will be listed.
Don: Sure glad to hear that AIU and Lionel switches will work together. That will make things much easier to incorporate into the layout. Thanks a ton for the info!!!
As to my comments at the start of the thread....they represent my frustration at the awkward way that Lionel posts their info on their website. I had to search every dropdown box and sub-box on their website before I finally located the pdf files that Neil mentioned. So my complaint about the lack of info on wiring things up is corrected to a clumsy interface on Lionel's website.I was wrong about them not posting the info. What is posted appears to be well-detailed, so I am glad of that. I am still surprised at the lack of information, generally on the web, about Fastrack layouts. There are almost no websites showing Fastrack track plans, other than rather small ones. I did find a track plan at RR-Track Software that should fill my needs quite well. It's called the "Basement Central Railroad" and is a 15 x 8 feet rectangular. Nested loops, O72 outer and O60 inner with crossovers. Spurs and yards all with O72 turnouts. 174 track sections and 48 accessory items.That will fit my 3 ping-pong table 15 x 9 area quite nicely. As to "Lionel bashing"...I don't see honest criticism as "bashing". Neither Lionel nor MTH has reached perfection in what they are doing. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Do I prefer MTH over Lionel? Yes, in some areas. They are simply a "best buy" item. Or there are features that make it easier and more enjoyable for me to operate trains. I mean it is supposed to be fun to run this stuff and not a "memory exercise" to see if you can keep straight locos vs switches vs accessories while operating the remote. Obviously Lionel saw that folks were having problems in that area and that's why they came out with the Legacy controller with an LCD screen. Why not be able to just glance down and see exactly what operating system mode you are in?
Am I anti-Lionel? Hardly. I buy what I think will work best. I have a box of MTH RealTrax, and after seeing the posts by Chief and others about the problems with that track and switches, I made what I think is a logical decision and switched to Lionel Fastrack for the permanent layout. MTH track will either be sold off or used for the under-the-tree layout. I just ordered a rebuilt Lionel KW transformer to power my accessories. Some of my most expensive (and favorite) locos are made by Lionel (I have both Lionel scale S2 Trubines). Now if I didn't own one piece of Lionel and was criticizing them, then I could see the beef. But I own both and I think that gives me the right to point out shortcomings when I see them, on EITHER side. So Benny and others....you can be as sarcastic or defensive as you want. I heap praise where it's due and do the same thing for criticism. And if I'm wrong, as Neil pointed out, I will also eat crow. Can you say that about yourselves? Dep
The book you were bashing was about a Lionel track system. It wasn't written or published by Lionel. The problems with the book should go back to the author/editor/publisher.
Re the web site. I've never had problems finding stuff. The Customer Service tab is on the main screen and that screen leads you to a second screen with tabs on pictorial diagrams, owner manuals, parts lists, etc.
Re the LCD screen, none of my audio/video equipments remotes use an LCD sceen. You push buttons and stuff happens (or doesn't) on the TV or DVD or whatever I'm trying to control. When stuff doesn't happen then I look at the remote to see if a) I'm pushing the wrong buttons, or b) the batteries are dead. The same thing is true for the CAB-1. I don't look at the CAB-1, I look at the layout or trains.
The LCD displays on the Legacy controller has two main functions. The lower "button" unit does away with plastic overlays that people usually lost or were cumbersome to switch by allowing the changing of the icons on the fly depending on what you have selected/set. The main display does provide text information for set up/control but I usually leave it in velocity throttle mode.
chuck wrote: The book you were bashing was about a Lionel track system. It wasn't written or published by Lionel. The problems with the book should go back to the author/editor/publisher.Re the web site. I've never had problems finding stuff. The Customer Service tab is on the main screen and that screen leads you to a second screen with tabs on pictorial diagrams, owner manuals, parts lists, etc. Re the LCD screen, none of my audio/video equipments remotes use an LCD sceen. You push buttons and stuff happens (or doesn't) on the TV or DVD or whatever I'm trying to control. When stuff doesn't happen then I look at the remote to see if a) I'm pushing the wrong buttons, or b) the batteries are dead. The same thing is true for the CAB-1. I don't look at the CAB-1, I look at the layout or trains. The LCD displays on the Legacy controller has two main functions. The lower "button" unit does away with plastic overlays that people usually lost or were cumbersome to switch by allowing the changing of the icons on the fly depending on what you have selected/set. The main display does provide text information for set up/control but I usually leave it in velocity throttle mode.
The book that I criticized (and also purchased, BTW) is notorious for having errors in it concerning track plans. I never claimed it was printed, written or published by Lionel. It's the only book I was able to find that specifically addressed the Fastrack system. Since it obviously upset your whole day and would have given you sleepless nights for a month, I changed the title of my thread.
It makes me just happy as heck that you never had any problems at the Lionel website. Obviously I am prejudiced against Lionel and that's why I complained.
None of my A/V equipment has LCD screens either. So what? I am typing on a huge LCD screen right now. So what? A train control is not a TV control. Two different animals. And A/V equipment is going to be used a lot more than a train remote. I don't need to look at my A/V stuff unless I am using the DVD player and doing something I don't normally do. And the buttons on A/V devices do the same thing every time you push them. Does your volume control on your TV do something different besides raise and lower volume? I doubt it. The controls on both the Legacy and DCS handheld do a lot more than what you describe. Or didn't you know that? Actually, I am gonna wait for DCS to incorporate Legacy stuff just like they did TMCC. Other than a jazzier sounding whistle and some TMCC speed improvement, I don't see Legacy worth even the discounted prices. I can controll my TMCC locos just fine with the DCS. And I haven't seen a Legacy loco that excites me into buying it. BTW...did you get stuck with one of those send-it-back upgrades? Not too bad for folks living in the USA. But a real wallet-emptier for those living in Europe who had to send it in.BTW...the Legacy 1.2 manual is available online. It tells you all about what the LCD screen can do. Might want to check it out. You may be missing something
http://www.lionel.com/products/productnavigator/InstructionManuals/00-0000-001.pdf
We actually have several AV related remotes that are multi function and the same buttons do different things depending on which device you select to control from the top row, aka TV, VCR, Cable Box. Remarkable how it emulates ENG, TR, RTE, ACC, SW. Maybe Magnavox copied the idea from Lionel? The fact that the buttons need to change is probably why they went with the back lit touch screen programable keypad on the Legacy remote. The main issue is that whether I am watching TV or playing with my trains I would rather be looking at the TV or the trains/layout than looking at the remote control.
Folks in Europe? TMCC uses the 60hz base AC sine wave as a critical component in the system. Anyone from Europe who bought TMCC or Legacy had to spend a lot to get the appopriate power to run it, usually an expensive inverter or an 250 volt AC to DC then back to 110 volt AC set up.
chuck wrote: We actually have several AV related remotes that are multi function and the same buttons do different things depending on which device you select to control from the top row, aka TV, VCR, Cable Box. Remarkable how it emulates ENG, TR, RTE, ACC, SW. Maybe Magnavox copied the idea from Lionel? The fact that the buttons need to change is probably why they went with the back lit touch screen programable keypad on the Legacy remote. The main issue is that whether I am watching TV or playing with my trains I would rather be looking at the TV or the trains/layout than looking at the remote control. Folks in Europe? TMCC uses the 60hz base AC sine wave as a critical component in the system. Anyone from Europe who bought TMCC or Legacy had to spend a lot to get the appopriate power to run it, usually an expensive inverter or an 250 volt AC to DC then back to 110 volt AC set up.
I use one unified remote to run everything. Volume is volume for stereo receiver and TV. The folks in Europe also had to spend around $200+ to send their Legacy back for the upgrade. So add that on to the amount they already spent to actually run the system.
I bought a label maker and labelled everthing on my layout. ACC-1 is one of my staging tracks, SW-1 is one of my switches, etc.
George
The folks in Europe also had to spend around $200+ to send their Legacy back for the upgrade.
Priority mail package from Ohio to London works out to something like $20-$50? It costs more to send from Europe?
I'm a little puzzled at the notion there isn't enough information about Fastrack layouts available. I did a quick Google search and came up with the following first few items:
http://www.thortrains.net/marx/46fastrack1.html
http://www.thortrains.net/marx/47fastrack1.html
http://www.rrtrack.com/html/lionel_fastrack_layouts.html
http://www.henrykautz.org/Trains/index.htm
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=6cf941dd981a324f752a1541ca8e2c75
There is a Fastrack Yahoo group. I am not a member but I understand it is a good resource.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Lionel_FasTrack_System/
I have been playing with Fastrack plans on AutoCAD and what I find most frustrating is lack of fitter pieces. I end up with a scad of them to get to the nearest length I need including fudge factor.
I would also like to to see half sections of O48 curves since they turn 30 degrees and you need a 15 degree section to match up with O36 on double track runs.
Also would like to see a double crossover with 6" Center to center along with concrete viaduct pieces and piers (do not like timber piers).
There's a variety of free or shareware software available for most track systems, including Fastrack. Here's one for one of the most popular platforms Mac OSX :):
http://www.railmodeller.com/
The freeware provided by Atlas and MTH have specific and very limited capabilities, and are of interest only to those who only want to use those track systems and do not want the advanced capabilities of the software you bought. I'd guess Lionel didn't think it was worth investing significant resources to reinvent what was freely or readily available from others. Designing bigger layouts is probably not the goal of the Atlas and MTH freeware.
Neil: Mac Actually, the program I got for free from MTH is quite good. I had originally used it to design a layout for my needs before I heard all the negative feedback about RealTrax and their switches.It was easy to use and it listed every part numner of every piece I put on the layout. Even totalled up the cost using MTH retail prices. And it could make huge layouts if that's what you wanted.
The RR-Track software is a major improvement over the MTH software but it is very pricey. Unfortunately, it is the only game in town for my use. I could have just bought the layout and a software viewer for it at $19. But I couldn't do any mods to it that way. So I bought the full program.
"Neil: Mac " border="0" />"
Well, RR Track, Atlas and MTH freeware only run on Windows. Railmodeler for the Mac has track schematics for all the major scales and all major O gauge three rail stuff. Next time consider getting a Macintosh. It can run both Windows and the Mac operating system and you can choose your software :).
I believe there is also freeware for Fastrack out there on Windows but I haven't bothered to look as I prefer to use the Mac operating system when given a choice. I do own RR Track and it is clearly the best thing available in terms of three rail software if you want to include accessories or have maximal flexibility. It doesn't cost more than one or two turnouts so I consider it's money well spent if you want to design layouts of any complexity.
I think you will be happy with the Fastrack. I have nearly $3,000 of it on my layout. One thing I would suggest, which I also posted over on the Fastrack group page is that you purchase a few of each of the 'filler' pieces. These short pieces come in real handy when actually building the layout. Even though I have RR Track software and designed my layout accordingly, some areas just worked better with the use of short pieces.
Dennis
TCA#09-63805
chuck wrote: The book you were bashing was about a Lionel track system. It wasn't written or published by Lionel. The problems with the book should go back to the author/editor/publisher.
I took delivery of a book today called "Getting Started With Lionel Trains" by Allan Miller. Unfortunately, it's very basic and written quite a while ago (2001). I only paid $7.00 for it and that includes shipping. If anyone would like to have it, or knows of someone who could use it, I'll gladly send it to them. I'm still waiting on delivery of the Fastack book.
Deputy wrote:Neil: I searched the Lionel website but didn't find any instructions for stuff. I've read other posts and Lee F. seems to have a handle on hooking AIU to Fastrack switches. So there is hope As to the other reply, it would appear that Lionel saw the success of MTH with an LCD screen that tells you exactly what you are addressing, since the Legacy controller now has that feature. Perhaps some folks only have one switch and one locomotive on their layout and that's why it's so simple for them to use CAB-1. Also disappointing that MTH includes a CD with track planning software for free while the only one I've been able to find for Fastrack is the one from RR-Track for $69.
Deputy,
I don't have any Fastrac switches!! I use GarGraves track & switches!! The last Lionel switch I wired was a 23011 series DUD!
Sorry if Deputy gave out any mis-information but I think he had what we call a 'Senior Moment'.
Lee F.
phillyreading wrote: Deputy wrote:Neil: I searched the Lionel website but didn't find any instructions for stuff. I've read other posts and Lee F. seems to have a handle on hooking AIU to Fastrack switches. So there is hope As to the other reply, it would appear that Lionel saw the success of MTH with an LCD screen that tells you exactly what you are addressing, since the Legacy controller now has that feature. Perhaps some folks only have one switch and one locomotive on their layout and that's why it's so simple for them to use CAB-1. Also disappointing that MTH includes a CD with track planning software for free while the only one I've been able to find for Fastrack is the one from RR-Track for $69. Deputy,I don't have any Fastrac switches!! I use GarGraves track & switches!! The last Lionel switch I wired was a 23011 series DUD!Sorry if Deputy gave out any mis-information but I think he had what we call a 'Senior Moment'.Lee F.
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