Noisy Lionel # 60 or 8690 Trolley

[Rick NJ]

Even though this is a very late response, I think that a lot of CTT readers will be interested in this info.  I have long been puzzled by the noise and also rapid wear of the brass axle gears on Lionel equipment with worm gears on the motor shaft.  I have recently bought several postwar Lionel trolleys, gang cars, tie jectors, all were inexpensive because the axle gears were stripped.  I aways put this down to lack of grease, replaced the axle gear myself, used fresh Lubriplate grease but still had a noisy unit.  Finally, I decided to have a closer look at the motor shaft worm gear on one of my gang cars after cleaning it with an old toothbrush and mineral spirits.  I use a pocket 30X microscope from Radio Shack.  I was quite surprised to see that the worm gear grooves were so rough that they looked like coarse sandpaper!  Obviously the rough steel worm gear was chewing up the brass axle gear, no matter how much grease was used! This is also the source of the motor noise.  I decided to attempt to smooth the worm gear.  I got some grease type valve grinding compound from the auto store, they usually have coarse and fine grades, get the fine grade.  I wrapped the armature with 9 or 10 turns of masking tape and carefully clamped it in a vise.  Be sure not to clamp the vise on the commutator or you will crack it.  Then get some string, I use 3 strand masons line, and cut a piece 12 inches long.  Tie a knot in each end and apply some of the valve grinding compound to the center 6 inches of the string and also all around the motor worm.  The use the string shoeshine fashion on each groove in the worm gear.  I use about 25 strokes in each groove to start.  Then loosen the vise and rotate the armature about 1/4 turn, tighten the vise and repeat the process until you have gone all the way around.  Then clean off the valve grinding compound and check with the 30X pocket microscope.  You will probably see that there are still some rough spots on the inside of the worm gear grooves.  To continue, cut another piece of mason line but this time uncoil 1 strand.  Use the two strands that are still together and polish the worm gear again as above.  If you are a perfectionist like me, you can finish with the single strand of masons line, this will get all the way down to the bottom of the worm gear groove.  Clean off the valve grinding compound and grease with Lubriplate of other light grease and reinstall.  You will be pleasantly surprised at how much quieter the motor now is, plus it will coast nicely and never wear out your axle gear again.  I have done this to all of my motorized Lionel items with worm gears, including F-3, GP-7, Steam Turbine, Gantry Crane, etc.  It's a bit of work but well worth it.  For the record I have found that 9 out of 10 Lionel items have rough motor worm gears and will benefit from this treatment.  Have at it guys and let me know how you make out!  Fred Hachmeyer  [e-mail]

[Seayakbill]

I have quite a few of the Postwar Motorized units, they all are growlers. I have not been successful in quieting them down.

[arkady]

dsmith

For those who have the # 60 or # 8690 Lionel trolleys, do any of them run quiet? 

None of my postwar Lionel motorized units run quietly, or ever have. I think it's an inherently noisy design.

[dsmith]

bump

[dsmith]

For those who have the # 60 or # 8690 Lionel trolleys, do any of them run quiet? 

Has anyone tried replacing the lower armature shaft bushing # 41-27 and did it quiet things down?

[initagain]

 

Here's something you might try.  You made sure that there was a ball bearing in the lube/armature well, but sometimes that ball bearing can seize up with old dried oil or grease.  What I have done in the past is take a straight pin or sewing needle and "pop" the ball bearing out of its seat, clean it and make sure the seat is clean as well.  Put it back in the seat, making sure it is firmly in place, and then put a drop of oil in the lube hole at the top of the plastic armature/brush plate.  It's almost microscopic work, but it can be done, with a little care to not lose the ball bearing.  Hope this works for you, and I REALLY hope you don't lose the ball bearing, in the process. 

[dsmith]

I have Lionel #60 Trolley and the reissued 8690 that uses the same motor and both are very noisy at low speed.  They sound like a coffee grinder as they go down the track.  If you speed them up the noise mostly goes away.  I am quite handy repairing postwar trains, but this one has me stumped.  I've tried everything I can think of, cleaning, lubricating, making sure there is a ball bearing in the top of the brush plate housing and making sure there is little vertical movement to the armature.  Perhaps the bearings are just worn.  They both run well and reverse easily, just noisy at low speed.  I love to run the #60, is has all the postwar charm.