OGR Website RIP

[Anonymous]

Chrissie.

Go play with your toys boy.

[Anonymous]

get lost you twinkie monster

[Anonymous]

Yes I think the OGR plan is to shut the forum down by forcing us to pay $18. They don't want to bother with it. Everyone will soon come here.

pax[:)]

[Anonymous]

I agree with ChesBchRy thes so called collectors item's were ment to be played with not stuck behind glass and to many of us have forgoten that if you want to look at stuff behind glass go to the stinkin museum!I've got a fwe peices that are not as old or as valuable as others would still rate collectability but they run around our layout when ever we want and oh yea those hot wheels I used to collect that are still in the package untouched and untarnished and numbered in the hundreds.Well the ones I didnt give to the Marines for toys for tots are on our layout and we don't care if it looks goofy or not.[;)]

Now I'll get back on my Caboose and Hi ball! [:p]

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to say I'm still on the fence about the OGR site[%-)] but I agree with many of you that this could be the end of it with the charge[xx(].I think much new blood that the hobby so desperatly needs will be turned away because of that deal[:(].I think its a great forum and i am a registered member over there but I really think alot members there will see a downturn after june 1 but I could be wrong.I belive in strengthening the hobby by promoting it like for example a couple of months ago I had back surgery and the week before the surgery I stoped by to see my old physical therapist.I got to talking with her secretary and low and behold her father had given her son his old lionel train set [:0]but the transformer was no good and they had not set up the trains[:(].Well yesterday my 6 yr old daughter and I were out working on the layout and came across one of her old set boxes and in it was a brand new 40 or 50 watt trans former unused so we went down there and dropped it off [:)]to her she almost went into tears she wanted to pay us for it but we would have none of that![^]To me thats premoting the hobby now her son can get his grandfathers train up and running and thats great [:p]heck my daughter has already started saving to give her as yet unborn cousin her first lionel set for just being her cousin[angel].But I really think the charge will hurt more than help.[V]

[Anonymous]

I don't believe that we should use this forum only as a vehicle to criticize another competitive magazines forum. If you don't like their new policy ( and I certainly don't ) just do as I intend to do, leave and -post here on CTT. They won't get a plum nickel of my money for my contributions. Problem solved. CTT's now the one!!

[Anonymous]

Oh by the way...Before anyone smacks me and says that I'm "anti-scale"
or something to that effect. I want to mention that I'm an assistant curator
to a museum exhibit that incorporates a 1000+ sq.ft. HO layout that is an
exact representation of the region that I live in right down to using the
EXACT PAINT (from the SAME CAN) on our scale miniature buildings that
is on the real ones. Equipment has been reproduced from original blue-
prints of locos, rolling stock, buildings, etc. Tech support is in the form of
many original (though fast decreasing in number) inhabitants of the area.
I enjoy this facet of the hobby equally as well as the "toy" part. I also credit
my interest in the scale end as beginning with the toys of my youth.

[Anonymous]

Before anyone throws stuff at me...please read the WHOLE rant?

Glad to see that a few others are "voting with their wallets". I thought I
was the only one for a while.

I guess the next thing that OGR will require will be for an existing forum
member to "sponsor" a new applicant and then a "committee" will be
formed to investigate and vote on the applicant. Sort of like an "Internet
Country Club"?

In all fairness, It seems that what was once an enjoyable past-time of
children and some adults (Remember those old toy train catalogs?) has
now become an Industrial Complex run by elitist marketers who are more
interested in making obscene profits by minting "collectors' editions" than
promoting the hobby. How on earth can you expect a child to become inter-
ested in a "hobby" that costs in the thousands of dollars-per-item and is
made up of "valuable collectors' items" that they can't play with for fear of
breakage?

At least a few companies like K-Line and ,yeah, even MTH ofer some items
that are affordable to youngsters (and oldsters who aren't members of the
Fortune 500). Scale modelling is a natural outgrowth of playing with toy
trains and is a wonderfull adult pasttime, but the hobby as a whole will only
continue if it is attractive and affordable to young people and newbies who
are still working to pay for such frills as food, shelter, utilities, medical, etc.

By the same token, once the newbies have gone and committed their $$$
to the hobby, they should be shown some respect by those already in it.
Many new posters on the OGR site have been ridiculed, sneered at, and
just plain ignored because they didn't choose to go into hock for the latest
and greatest techno-gadget, or their locos lack 0.275 rivets, or because
they run their father's trains on the original tubular track.

I have found that CTT, the magazine, treats ALL of the hobby pretty much
equally. They have over the years given honest evaluations of equipment
and methods of miniature train operation, construction, maintenance, and
products on the market. This is what is needed to keep the hobby alive!
The CTT site seems to reflect the same ideals, whereas the OGR site
was more of a "look at me" site, an "I know more stuff than you" site, and
a mutual-admiration-society for certain suppliers, advertisers, and manu-
facturers. Don't believe so? Try posting a differing opinion on that site and
see how long it stays up.

There are some posters over there that post with such smugness and such
volume that one wonders, a) if they truly have any train layouts because they
spend such gawd-awful amounts of time on the 'Net posting , b) if they are
members of OGR magazine's staff posting material for editorial purposes,
or c) if they are, indeed, manufacturers or their staff posting to use the "Net as
another marketing tool.

It seems that sometime in the 1980's toys and other childhood items ceased
being toys and common everyday things and suddenly became "rare" "valuable"
"collectors' editions" that should only be purchased for their "investment potential"
or their "correctness in representing the prototype".

Well, folks, NOT AT MY PLACE! At my house it's still a hobby! You can RUN my
381E dragging a long freight over a metal bridge and through PreWar #223
switches and over #20 and #20X diamonds! You can also run my #318 with
a set of #300-series passenger cars that someone had (very nicely) made into
a "Baby Blue Comet" set. You can go over to my O Gauge layout and run an
original #256 dragging a set of #700-series passenger cars. Or even an ALL
ORIGINAL Ives #3252 (even original wiring and rollers) pulling a set of #60-
series passenger cars! These were meant to be run! To be PLAYED with!
To be ENJOYED! Not bought/sold for their "Value". Wanna run my #763 and
it's #2600-series "Madison" cars. Yeah, I know, it isn't "truly scale"! I guess
I can't hang with the "real train guys".

But ya know what? I'M HAVING FUN! We ALL need to lighten up, be friendlier,
promote the HOBBY (NOT the "Commerce/Market") and get along!

Leave the snobs and elitists over on the other site, stop griping, start helping
each other and LET'S RUN THOSE TRAINS! Old Josh made 'em to be RUN!

Sorry about all the ranting...I'll get back in my box now.

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Alan,

No one wants what you call "advise"

Maybe you can ask beofre you post forum members pictures without there consent.

[Anonymous]

Look $18 is not alot. But I won't pay to post my FREE advice to benefit Rich's magazine of which I have no stake.

But I will post my new ideas, thoughts gizmos, modification, advice here.


I lurked there and someone was looking for ideas on making clouds;
I have a stencil solution that I modified from an article in Mod RR that I have used on numerious layouts and even my son's bedroom, but I'll be "darned" if I'll post help there!!!

pay your $18 but you won't get me.

Alan

[Phil1361]

A couple of people on this thread have mentioned ads. Here is Mr.Melivins take on ads copied directly from OGR:

____________________________________________________________________
"There is no market for ads on this forum or almost anywhere else on the web for that matter. The bloom is long gone off that internet rose. It is only the MEGA-sites that can make any money selling ads.

The problem is the response rates, or should I say the LACK of response. In a direct snail-mail campaign, response rates of 1.5% are considered OK and 2% is terrific! Those percentages reflect actual SALES from the mailing involved. Internet ads on sites like ours generate response rates in the .01% range for click-throughs. That means that .01% of visitors will click on the ad to look at the offer. Of those, only a tiny fraction of a percent of people who click-through will actually BUY something. In the early days of the web this kind of advertising worked because it was a novelty. It is no longer a novelty and in fact most people consider ads an intrusion on their browsing experience.

That's why the only ads you see here are our own. We put them up to expose some of our products to web visitors, but actual sales as a direct result of those ads is virtually non-existent.

Rich Melvin, Publisher
O Gauge Railroading magazine"
___________________________________________________________________

I personally don't buy it. How does he know if someone sees an ad and picks up the phone or the next chance he gets goes down to the local hobby shop and buys the item?

And why wouldn't Lionel, Atlas, MTH and Weaver and the smaller companies NOT want to advertise there? A lot of people will still see the ads! Does every ad have to make a direct sale to be successful?

For the people who wanted this thread to die I apologize.

[Anonymous]

Bill, my feelings exactly. I could almost stomach the attitude over there when it was free, but paying 18 bucks on top of the 39 dollars and change for the magazine....was just more than I could take. John Harding .

[Anonymous]

That was TERRIBLE how the OGR form treated Marty Donaldson last night. Shame!

[FJ and G]

Well said, Bill, I post occasionally on your forum as well and can vouch for it being a good place to visit with a lot of freedoms.

Dave Vergun

[Anonymous]

I'm not in agreement with OGR Website RIP. It's a good Forum and has certainly earned a place for itself on the Internet. However, I'm of the opinion that any cost to run-operate-maintain their Forum should be borne by OGR and not from the Forum membership. Forum costs are simply the costs of OGR doing business. Especially since the Forum is really self centered around OGR and actually serves as an advertising "hook" to attract more subscribers.

It's my opinion that their Forum has suffered in part because many of the long time Forum members are so emotionally attached to the Forum and have drank the kool-aid for so long that they have become lobotomized zombies, marching in lock-step with one another, coming down hard on anyone who have contrarian views. To me this projects an image of an "Old Boys Club." and has an intimidating effect on newcomers.

Another annoying distraction is that when ever a member of management posts a thread the lobotomized zombies quickly begin posting and genuflecting in unison to reinforce the thread.

Arbitrarily applied censorship is also a big turn off. Having one's thoughtful threads deleted just because the Forum is not a Democracy just won't work in todays world.

Add to the above an $18 membership fee to become an active member just adds another ingredient into their recipe for disaster.

This is a great Forum as is the Atlas Forum; you are invited to visit ModelTrainJournal.com it also hosts an non-affiliated free 3-rail o-gauge forum that you may enjoy becoming part of.

http://www.modeltrainjournal.com/phpBB2/

[Anonymous]

I too am from the "other-side." It looks like Bob Marley's words may be appropriate, "exodus movement of the people." I am also on the fence with respect to paying $ 18.00 for a forum membership. I look at it as an expensive proposition:
I am paying how much for the subscription $ 32.00? If I add the fee that's a wooping $50.00. hmmmmm.[?]

[CSXJOE]

My opinion is that the OGR Forum takes up a lot of Rich's time to moderate. By charging the $18.00, enough members will leave making the forum almost worthless. Now Rich can shut it down gracefully and save face without having to pull the plug and tick everyone off.

[cbojanower]

I'm actually pleasently surprised it has stayed up this long, (My post about where are you going to) it was not meant to be an affront to anyone but a few have seem to have taken it that way.

But so far I do like some of the sites (inc this one) that I have been referred to.

[Anonymous]

OK, here's my last post on this topic, for what that's worth.

There is a thread over there called "where are you going to" by cbojanower that was posted Saturday and has 14 replies as of this morning (some of which are "so run away, you babies!" replies).

I realize that some threads about this have been deleted. The thing is, they all say the same thing. How many thread does any forum (including this one) need about the same subject?

Whatever. I'm just here to learn and to help people when I can. I hope we can all drop this debate.

P.S. "Polska", not only were your threads there deleted, but you hold the all-time record for most having the most different accounts deleted, and bragged about it. Try posting about toy trains, you might have better luck here.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Wow guys, that is really sad that Rich feels so threatened by this forum as to delete all references to it. Maybe he will learn something from all of this. Nothing EVER gets deleted here!!! Even if Rich was to post it.[swg]

[drjohn691]

It will be gone within the hour. Mine was.

[Anonymous]

Rick, Rich has been deleated any reference to this Forum and that many OGR members can be found there. Let's try a little experiment. I'll post something about the growing number of OGR Forum members here on CTT and let's see how long it lasts.

[Anonymous]

Rick H.

You're way off base! Threads and posts have been deleted right and left. What are the paying customers going to say when they get their threads and posts deleted????

[drjohn691]

Bull,
I posted a nice polite thread reply about how the answer to a question could be found on this forum. Bang, he singled it out and deleted it. That is the TRUTH and a FACT! WRONG! Can you imagine Jim Weaver over at Atlas O being that bold as to do that. NEVER. They have integrity.
Removed the OGR links from my computer and called Friday to cancel my subscription. Voting with my wallet fellows.
Let' s just enjoy the CTT forum. A nice bunch of people and a nice magazine. Support them in any way you can.

[Anonymous]

Joe, you're not correct. There are three threads there, including the one you started. One about how "busy" (the poster's sarcasm) it was over here went over the flame line, and it is indeed gone.

Leave it be, guys. Enjoy this place as long as it's free.

[Anonymous]

Talk about censorship! Rich just deleated the thread in his suggestion box that says the CTT forum is growing with former OGR members. I guess Rich doesn't want your friends to know where to find you. [X-)]

[Anonymous]

I started this thread and oh, how I wish i could end it.

[Anonymous]

Well, this is a nice party. I'll pay the fee over there on May 30. NOTHINGS FREE. I've made some freinds over there. Problem is, I'm not interested in posting layout pictures, chat rooms, avatars(and shrinking thereof). No time. Probably no time for 2 forums either. But I got to thinking about all the knowledge I've gained. Talk to an O gauger who isn't Forumized and you'll see what I mean. I've long given up getting mad and canceling subscriptions and telling people off because we disagree. Rich rules the place over there. I've been on other unregulated forums where folks post in other peoples names, and generally post just to cause trouble. O well, we'll all sit back and watch things unfold. Chuck

[Anonymous]

nblum,

You're right about the censorship problem at OGR. It's also applied selectively; I've been hit with it myself, only to see a similar post by someone else stay up. The tone of the site is a lot like radio back in the "Freedom of Information" days, prior to 1988. Controversy had to be avoided at all costs in those days, and it appears that the same attitude prevails at OGR. I think this bothers me as much as, if not more than, the fee.