Can I swap trucks ?

[Anonymous]

Can I swap a postware linonel truck, stud and circlip attachement, for a newer ,riveted on, style truck ?

Said another way can I drill out the rivet on a truck and replace it with an oder stud and circlip style truck ?

Sorry for the poor descritpion. I don't know the correct terminlogy.

Jeff

[Big_Boy_4005]

Why would you need to do that? I suppose that you could if the retaining clip style truck would work on the car.

Generally that type fastening method was used on cars with sheet metal bases, and rivets were used for thicker material, usually plastic. Often the plastic cars have a recessed hole that would make it difficult or impossible to close the clip. Also, make sure that the space on the stud between the top of the truck and the groove for the clip is enough to allow you to get the clip on. Many times it will look like it can be done, but when you try it the stud ends up being too short for the base thickness.

There are no rules of right and wrong here, just what works and what doesn't. Those are the things that I can think of, to look out for, the rest is up to you. Good luck, and have fun![:)]

[lionelsoni]

Elliot, I can understand why a postwar truck would be attractive to someone trying to make a plastic truck work. For an example, see the recent thread
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13140

I have never had much luck drilling rivets and eyelets out of plastic. They always seem to come loose and spin in the hole. In any case, because of the thickness difference, you might have to remove a chunk of floor and replace it with sheet metal. I haven't done this, but I would go for a piece of brass large enough that screws at the corners do not interfere with the truck.

As for terminology, the transverse piece on the top of the truck is the truck bolster. The corresponding piece on the car (if any) is the body bolster. The bearings between the truck and the body are the center and side bearings. The side bearings are usually absent on a model, which depends on an extra-large center bearing to keep from tipping. The pin in the middle is the king pin.

[brianel027]

Jeff I replace trucks constantly. And reattach trucks on 100% of everthing. Really. Everything. The main cause of derailments on 027 curves is the wobble of the truck from being attached with a loose rivet or stud with "C" clip. Even on my Railking and Industrial Rail cars, I grind down the nub that sticks up from the truck into the body for less wobble.

The other causes for derailments is the opening space within the coupler itself, or the thickness of the knuckle itself... but this is another story.
With the modern plastic trucks the other cause is inconsistant gauge of the fast angle wheel sets. YES, I have bought the fast angle wheels in bulk from parts guys (Korean made) and found an astounding lack of quality control on these. You put the wheels in a line and you can see they're all over the place as far as space between the two wheels on the axle.
You need to pair them up and make sure the 2 wheel sets on a single truck are the same. They can be different from truck to truck, but NOT on the same truck.

Back to the immediate topic.... You can drill out old rivets by using a fresh drill bit that is a hair smaller than the outside diameter of the rivet itself. Basically you will be heating up the rivet and pushing it out of the plastic frame of the car. Use an old scrap piece of homosote on the other side to absorb some of the heat off the drill bit. You want the rivet out with minimal melting to the car. Metal framed cars take a little longer with the drill - you will have to basically drill through the rivet.

I replace the rivets with a variety of screws depending on the car... for box cars I use a large head truss screw with a lock nut. I use lock nuts for everything. Regular nuts come loose. Speed nuts can also come loose in time. The lock nuts (sometimes called stop nuts) really stay put. For flat cars or gondolas I use a blackened button-head screw that requires a hex wrench. I use truss screws on K-Line gondolas as I make custom removeable wood floors for all of these. Or on flat cars I use a round cylinder head screw that allows me to use a variety of flat car attachements that I custom designed to fit over these heads allowing a single flat car to become very multi-purpose... from MOW cars to TOFC cars and everything in-between. I keep a drawer of the various kinds of screws I use well-stocked at all times. I find this stuff at the hardware store.

The one thing I miss about Ithaca was Bishop's Hardware. Man, that was the best store in the world to me. Tell 'em the Trainman sent you. They all got to know me real good. It became my "other" train shop, even though they didn't sell any trains.

I do also use the postwar Lionel trucks depending on their condition. They can be cleaned up by spraying them with WD-40, letting it soak it overnight, then scrubbing the truck with a wire brush, then some de-greasing dish soap with a tooth-brush, and then using a blower to dry them. I have used a piece of Plastruct tubing over the axle to help when there's too much wheel wobble from 40+ years of use. When I get the trucks clean I also put fresh lubricant on the axles where the wheels go.

You can make those postwar trucks run like new. Certain they were a very good design. They uncouple flawlessly from any make of uncoupling track. Even the later ones, the plastic ones with the copper strip for the uncoupler are good. Certainly better than some of the knock-off Korean immitation MPC-era plastic trucks.


When I reattach the older postwar style with the nub sticking up from the truck into the body, I put a nylon washer between the truck and the body of the car before attaching it - to help eliminate truck wobble.

I also use a dremel tool to grind down knuckles and/or increase the opening size of couplers themselves. But that's another lesson.

A train buddy of mine jokes that I muck with stuff so much that my collection is worthless. Yes, on a financial collector original condition investment level.
BUT everything runs and works PERFECTLY.
So in my mind, it's all worth triple what any book says. And I can now run my heaviest cars behind a 9-inch MPC plastic flat car with plastic trucks with no derailments - even on my "S" 027 curves (I know, a design no-no). That's no small feat. That's also what I call "running trains!!!" Yeah!!!

[Anonymous]

Brian,

It sounds like you really know your stuff. Here is my original reason behind the swap. I have a broken plastic coupler on a 3470 Aerial Target Launching Car.

Rather than make the trip to the train store to buy more plastic pieces I'd like to use a spare metal postwar truck that I have on hand. My big concern was the diameter of the rivet vs. the diameter of the stud. Sounds like the diameters match up, the rest is just a straight mechanical job.

Now onto my next question - how the heck do you keep the couplers from opening when you get a 9 or 10 car consist running on a tight o-27 layout ?

I have 3 or 4 cars, some metal couplers, some plastic, that open when heavily loaded. What's the fix ?

Jeff

[Big_Boy_4005]

Jeff, if that car is in decent condition, I would only do a replacement of what's broken with the exact same thing. If the car is a junker, then it doesn't matter. Brian and Bob may disagree with me, but that's my opinion on this particular car.

[spankybird]

Hi Jeff,

To prevent the couplers from opening you can do several things.

1. replace the spring with a stronger one.

2. Sometimes a light coating of light oil on the locking pin helps

3. If you don’t care about uncoupling them, then you can wrap a small wire around the neck of the coupler, that way the unlocking pin can’t come down. Some people use small rubber bands.

[brianel027]

Hi Elliot! Naw, I figure everyone has their own way of doing things in this hobby. The stuff I do to my trains I realize many would never do. That's okay. Most of the postwar stuff I have, even the stuff that is SUPPOSEDLY collectible was in such shoddy condition when I bought it - which is why I bought it... the price was right. I'm not looking for pristine collectibles. I want stuff to operate. Most of what I buy would hardly be termed collectible. So I feel little guilt or bad feelings in making changes, repainting, rebuilding and making modifications. And so much of the older stuff is being reissued and remade, so this obviously effects future collectibility - at least from a monetary point.

I do understand how some would not want to change or alter their trains. BUT I also think that the "collectibility" abd "investment" end of the hobby has hurt it as much as it has helped it in the past. The one thing that has made this hobby strong is the fun you can have operating and running the trains. There are those today who once enjoyed running trains as kids, and collect them as adults without operating them. Chances are they wouldn't be collecting today had they not had them as kids.

We runs trains differently today. The rivet and "C" clamp designs worked well for running short 3-5 long trains. The things I do that I descripe above are things I do. Should others want to do them, that's an individual decision. I can only say it's what I do so I can have more run running my trains.

Elliot, you always had knowledgeable and good things to say here. And I respect your opinions. Whether any one uses my tips or advice is up to them. I personally refuse to not be able to participate in the hobby because I can't spend a fortune on trains. So I buy lesser quality stuff or sheer junk and fix it up. That for me is part of the fun.

It would probably be good for more folks to really start having fun with the trains. And for others to take notice of this. BUT at the same time, the postwar era is no more. They can remake trains, but those originals are the real deal. And the originals are American made, unlike many of the new reissues. There may be a lot of original Lionel's out there, but those numbers won't increase. So Elliot's feeling on preserving and replacing original components of those trains is certainly a vaild viewpoint and one to be considered.

On anything that isn't a beater or junker, I would recommend any novice consult a book or do a little homework on how common a particular train is before making major changes. And remember, if the shell is good, a motor can always be rebuilt. Original parts and repros of original parts are readily available for most Lionel pieces.

[SPFan]

Jeff, Regarding the couplers opening with longer trains; this is an issue with the '55 and later trucks with rivet mounts due to a change in the uncoupling pin. Depending on how much you like to tinker you could replace the pin with a longer, larger diameter one or you could replace the pin and base with one from the earlier trucks. I believe the repro parts folks supply these. If you like to run long trains, replacing the trucks with modern ones will double the number of cars your locos can pull, at least on the level track.
Pete