Tell 'em what toy trains are all about!

[pbjwilson]

On MR's reader forum someone asked if anyone plays with toy trains. I think we should teach the rivet counters what toy trains are all about. Post a reply and don't hold back! It's under the General Discussion heading.

Paul the Painter
"the fumes are gettin to me"

[brianel027]

Paul, truth be told, there are no toy trains. On one of the other forums HO guys are routinely made fun of as "weenies." I've had HO guys tell me that I'm the first Lionel modeler they've liked because I do so much kitbashing, repainting and scratchbuilding... things often considered criminal in the world of Lionel. In my mind, many of the 3-railers have become more detail obsessive, demanding and less tolerant than the HO guys.

I wish it was otherwise, but it is pretty much an adult hobby. Although there are a few voices speaking out for trains aimed at kids, 027 and more smaller, less-scale trains - the vast majority of product coming out is in the other direction. They're certainly not toys, and it's wise not to refer to them as toys. Even new trains that will clear 027 curves and switches aren't advertised as such for fear they'll be viewed as "toys."

The rivet counters have clearly been heard. The kids get FasTrack sets, where the Railsounds can hardly be heard because the track is so noisey. And even though I personally like the little 4-4-2 steamer that comes with Lionel sets - or the MTH F-3 that comes with their sets, when I read about those engines it's always some comment like "it isn't scale." As Homer Simpson would say... "D'oh!"

[Anonymous]

ELECTRIC trains are all TOYS. NUFF SAID--move on.

[brianel027]

Jack, along the lines of the old saying "The only difference between the men and the boys are the prices of their toys" I agree. BUT I have shown current catalogs to many folks with kids trying to promote this hobby. And I can't tell you how many times the first thing parents say is "these aren't toys" or "these are trains for adults, not kids."

I doubt there are many kids who do get trains, who are getting engines that cost hundreds upon hundreds of dollars. I've talked with people from the various companies and have been told in their own words that even if an item runs on 027 curves, they don't want to say so for fear the item will be viewed as a "toy" train instead of a scale model.

Years ago when I had a job offer with one of the companies. I had been working on and making prototypes for them including an 027-ized Dash-9, an 027-ized U36B and an 027-ized RS-3. These are my favorite engines on my layout, though I foolishly sold the Dash-9. I love my little U-boat. It has all the feel of a modern diesel but looks right at home with my smaller cars and Alco FA's. I had made a mock up of a modern box car for smaller train layouts. I now realize none of these ideas would have gone over well. This is not the direction the hobby has headed. Even the new Marx Trains don't mention "toy" on the box... they say adult collectible.

Even when starter sets get reviewed, there's always the line "these aren't scale." Maybe this is noted as an editorial service. Years ago it wouldn't have even been though of, nor necessary. I like the MTH Railking F-3 and am GLAD it's not scale. I wouldn't buy it if it was. I'll take the K-Line S-2 over the Lionel scale S-2 any day of the week. And in my eyes the Lionel 4-4-2 lloks as much like a steam engine as anything else. But as I constantly hear "your engine is nice, but it's not a scale model." Who cares? Obviously someone does... many someones. I realize I'm a lone voice in this area. Even many of the Railking items have gone scale. Scale dimensions/proportions and prototypical accuracy are the current buzz phrases. Prices of new trains seem to reflect this trend. Even if you could find Lionel Trains at Wal-Mart or Target, I doubt they'd be stocking the new scale Milk Cars in their toy department.

Matter of fact, here's an acid test... I did this once. Show any one of the new train catalogs to a toy department manager at Wal-Mart to see what their reaction is. The words I heard were as follows: "These aren't toys and they're too expensive."

Parents who are looking for a train set for a child are thinking of durability, play value and price... the very things they've always thought about. NOT scale dimensions, prototypical detail and compatability with other computerized operating systems. When I sold trains, I never once had a parent ask if the train was scale. On the other hand, many adults refuse to even consider purchasing something that isn't full scale with appropriate detail. And don't hesitate to let the companies know in no uncertain terms if the item isn't up to scale par.

So yes Jack, poetically speaking they may all be toys. Even by Webster's definition, you could I suppose make a case that they are toys. Still I wouldn't want to be the one who walks up to a 3-rail display at a train show with Shays, Camelbacks and Y6B's in action and says "those are nice toy trains you have there! Can my nephew play with your toy trains for a few minutes?"

[Anonymous]

hey im a kid and i go bonkers for o gauge[:o)]

[brianel027]

Jerry, I'm a little older than you, but still a kid at heart (and in looks too - no one EVER guesses I'm as old as I am) and I'm bonkers over 0 gauge too.

But a clarification: gauge is the space between the rails. Even the smallest of 027 trains are still 0 gauge, be it the 4-4-2 starter set steamer with Lionel sets or the Keystone Salute Series box cars by K-Line (the same cars being used for their 'S' gauge series).
Scale is the measurement ratio of our trains. This is the trend - precise 1:48.

Don't misread me folks... I've gotten a bit cranky over the years from all the put downs from the scale guys. I've said it before - the more the merrier. You don't want to slam the door shut on people... more product options, more potential buyers.

I don't want the scale stuff to go away. Folks obviously like it. But there are also those who prefer the non-scale, more traditionally sized trains. Nothing wrong with that either. It's not about scale - it's about trains.

Paul, actually I'm with you... I like having fun with my trains. They may be more toy-ish in size, but I still detail them and have fun operating as an 027-hi-railer.
But at this time, I think the rivet counters have the edge. They may not outnumber us, but they speak louder and spend much more. Dollars talk, and the various importers have listened.