Lionel Machine-gun firing 0-8-0

[wjstix]

On a Mallet such as an early 2-6-6-2 there would be 8, while on an articulated with two "engines" under a single frame such as a Big Boy, you might have the "chuffs" going in and out of synch with each other, creating quite a cacophony!

Jon

Most early Mallets were "compound" engines, meaning the exhaust steam from the smaller rear set of cylinders went to the larger 'low-pressure' front drivers, and then were exhausted up the stack (so the steam was used twice). On those you would only hear four chuffs, since the chuff is the sound of the steam exhausting up the stack. On later "simplified" (or "simplex") engines like a Big Boy, all four cylinders get steam directly and all four exhaust from the stack. If the cylinders/drivers are in synch you would hear four chuffs, but you could get the off-beat sound you describe if one set slips a little.

[J. Daddy]

The main complaint I have is at low voltage the engine is already moving, but no sound is coming out, by the time you hit 3 volts the engine is taking off and the sound is chattering like a machine gun....

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When the men get together its always done right!

J. Daddy

The electronic boards need 3 (some 5 volts or more) to operate, so when running in conventional it's weird at low track voltage.

 

Yeah, have 3 of them... all are the same. I wonder if a 9 volt could be hooked up to make the sound constant like the TMCC versions, then you could really hear the chuffs when your going slow. Of course I have not added anycars on them, so maybe a drawbar pull will help out.

[Pennvalley]

The main complaint I have is at low voltage the engine is already moving, but no sound is coming out, by the time you hit 3 volts the engine is taking off and the sound is chattering like a machine gun....

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When the men get together its always done right!

J. Daddy

The electronic boards need 3 (some 5 volts or more) to operate, so when running in conventional it's weird at low track voltage.

 

[bigboy50]

Im not really an expert on repairing stuff, but a machine gun sound! That is really weird.

[Dave Connolly]

 I'm not familar with this engine and the complaints I've heard seem to be the same ones associated with the Railsounds boxcar that you place behind a steamer or diesel. With a steamer the chuff rate has to somehow follow the engines movement. It seems it is basically relying on track voltage. There may be a way to slow it down at speed. But then again it wouldn't chuff at slow speeds.

 I run command only. I bought one of the early Equalizers that converted MTH Proto 1's to TMCC and retained the stock Protosounds. Worked fine conventionally for years but with the Equalizer installed the chuffs wouldn't start till you moved a few feet. Ended up trashing it and converting to full TMCC.

 Not knowing the price of this engine. But the cost of adding Railsounds is close to the price probably of a ready to go command version. As mentioned these are not easy engines to work on and space is limited.

 Not getting into a brand war. But it's tough to beat the MTH scale 0-8-0 Proto 2's if you are a conventional runner. You have proper chuff rates that can be programmed through DCS at a local shop and can be retained on you home layout running conventionally.

[J. Daddy]

  There seem to be numerous complaints on this engine. The command engine features 4 chuffs per revolution. These drivers are small and the chuffs are rapid if run at speed. The command engines literally can crawl. Even with the cruise feature disabled. I'm assuming conventional engines with the same motor and gearing run similar.

 If you go to CTT site. Under the News section you can access videos. Select the January menu. Then the Free On Line extra. About halfway the video. You will see a command 0-8-0 pushing a cut of cars down a siding. This is what a prototypical 0-8-0 with 4 chuffs per revolution would soundlike. Certainly not machine gun like doing it's intended job. Get it out on the mainline at speed and it sure does though.

 Not sure of the specs on the conventional engine as to how the chuff is enabled or if it features Railsounds. The command version features to cherry switches activated by a cam to achieve the 4 chuffs.

The main complaint I have is at low voltage the engine is already moving, but no sound is coming out, by the time you hit 3 volts the engine is taking off and the sound is chattering like a machine gun....

[n1vets333]

 I have a railsounds box car, that has the steam engine sounds to add sound to a non railsounds engine. Since there is no option to add a battery like tmcc railsound engines the low voltage is not enough to clearly generate the proper sounds and I think what your hearing is the crackling of the speakers. I get that when I crank the voltage up slowly to the railsound box car. I also have a tmcc railsounds c-420 in which lionel gave the option to add a 9 volt battery to help on the start up sequence and the shut down sequence allowing enough juice to properly hear the full sounds.

[Dave Connolly]

  There seem to be numerous complaints on this engine. The command engine features 4 chuffs per revolution. These drivers are small and the chuffs are rapid if run at speed. The command engines literally can crawl. Even with the cruise feature disabled. I'm assuming conventional engines with the same motor and gearing run similar.

 If you go to CTT site. Under the News section you can access videos. Select the January menu. Then the Free On Line extra. About halfway the video. You will see a command 0-8-0 pushing a cut of cars down a siding. This is what a prototypical 0-8-0 with 4 chuffs per revolution would soundlike. Certainly not machine gun like doing it's intended job. Get it out on the mainline at speed and it sure does though.

 Not sure of the specs on the conventional engine as to how the chuff is enabled or if it features Railsounds. The command version features to cherry switches activated by a cam to achieve the 4 chuffs.

[J. Daddy]

I have the TMCC version.  The chuff is triggered by a cherry switch activated by a four-lobe cam on one of the drive axles.  It is a bear to get to the switch on my TMCC engine due to the circuit boards and spaghetti wiring.  Some of the circuit boards must be removed and I had to unsolder the wires to the motor to facilitate disassembly.   

It is absolutely the hardest engine I have ever worked on due to the small space available and all of the circuit boards with all the wiring.  It is very difficult to get the engine back together without pinching wires on the TMCC version.

Four chuffs/rev is prototypically accurate for the engine. 

Earl

Thanks Earl,

I think I will be looking to upgrade it and not modify the sensors on the axle, your right on the electronics! I had an issue with the connector to the E unit, and smoke unit has to be replaced, it was like an octopus in there and I could not even see the screws that hold the board circuit boards to remove them to get to the switch!.... no I think I will either sell it or upgrade it.

 

[EIS2]

I have the TMCC version.  The chuff is triggered by a cherry switch activated by a four-lobe cam on one of the drive axles.  It is a bear to get to the switch on my TMCC engine due to the circuit boards and spaghetti wiring.  Some of the circuit boards must be removed and I had to unsolder the wires to the motor to facilitate disassembly.   

It is absolutely the hardest engine I have ever worked on due to the small space available and all of the circuit boards with all the wiring.  It is very difficult to get the engine back together without pinching wires on the TMCC version.

Four chuffs/rev is prototypically accurate for the engine. 

Earl

[Kooljock1]

Just an added note: on a real steam engine with two sets of cylinders, the engine "chuffs" four times per revolution of the drive wheels. On an engine with three sets of cylinders (briefly popular just after the turn of the century) there would be six.

On a Mallet such as an early 2-6-6-2 there would be 8, while on an articulated with two "engines" under a single frame such as a Big Boy, you might have the "chuffs" going in and out of synch with each other, creating quite a cacophony!

Jon

[J. Daddy]

It probably is TMCC upgradable, and I'll tell you why.  Right now, I have my engine on display at my LTS.  RIGHT NEXT to it is the same engine, different road number with TMCC.  These 2 engines are like fraternal twins(I got that right, didn't I?), 1 with and 1 without TMCC.  I would think that it would be just a board install from Lionel...but I haven't looked at them on the inside and this is just a SWAG on my part.

No I think you are absolutely correct. I checked last night and under the cab there is an Odessey switch that is called out but the switch is missing...also under the water hatch is a TMCC switch that is there but could not tell the difference if it was thrown. Unfortunately the instructions do not mention what this switch is for.

I think this loco should have been made with TMCC only, just because of its low voltage draw in the begining for the motor vs. voltage required to make the sound start. Too bad because she is a beaut....

[anjdevil2]

It probably is TMCC upgradable, and I'll tell you why.  Right now, I have my engine on display at my LTS.  RIGHT NEXT to it is the same engine, different road number with TMCC.  These 2 engines are like fraternal twins(I got that right, didn't I?), 1 with and 1 without TMCC.  I would think that it would be just a board install from Lionel...but I haven't looked at them on the inside and this is just a SWAG on my part.

[J. Daddy]

I guess I would not mind the rapid fire if the steam sound started out loud in the begining and you could here the chuffs as it started out, but in this case, the locomotive really needs to be TMCC... I heard you can upgrade these, is that true?

[Anonymous]

J.
I traded mine to anjdevil for his Legacy system... so I don't have it. I was intending to investigate modifications but never got around to it before the 'trade'.

You would have to look around on the engine to see if you can figure out what the trigger mechanism is... keep in mind that if you modify the engine you will void any and all warranties and you could possibly damage the engine to a point where (worst case) it no longer works. At $349.00 list for the engine I wouldn't be too hard pressed to make any modifications.

Search the net for 0-8-0 sounds and you'll see what Rich and I are saying - the sound is 'correct'. What we are used to 'hearing' from the movies isn't what steam engines really sounded like.

[J. Daddy]

Interesting... Have you modified yours? When I opened the boiler off of the housing it was just stacked with electronics... can you access the magnets from the bottom of the chassis?

Thanks,

 

[J. Daddy]

Really? I don't get it though, it fires off 2 times before a wheel revolution in the begining and only get faster.... problem is at low voltage you can barely here the sound! So yours is the same? Have you investigated putting a 9 volt battery or upgrading to TMCC? It just does not seem right....

[Anonymous]

This is what the engine sounds like.

Lionel made these engines 4 chuffs per revolution and the driver on the engine is a smaller diameter resulting in the machine gun sound. I have heard the 0-8-0 sounds (from real life engines) and they did sound similiar to this.

I don't know how the chuffing is actuated but if you look on the wheels you may see some sort of mechanism that triggers the sound. Say there are 2 magnets on the wheel you could simply remove one of the magnets and the sound should improve. Unfortunately Lionel did not give the option to change between 2 and 4 chuffs.

[anjdevil2]

J. Daddy:

Ah, welcome to the switcher club.  I also have a 0-8-0 C&O, Railsounds, non-TMCC.  This is normal.  Switchers are for low speed operation.  That "machine gun" sound is ok.  Mine, smokes like crazy, just dosen't like that high speed.  Sorry to tell you that.  But it's ok.

[J. Daddy]

I recently purchased a 2006 Lionel 0-8-0 with standard E unit activation (non TMCC electronics). When I place it on the track all sound systems are fine, i.e. steam at idle, crew talk, whistle, bell, and smoke. However when I crack the throttle open and barely move the locomotive out, the steam chuff shoulds like a machine gun going off. (sounds like it is going 4x's the wheel revolution). Has anyone seen this and how do I repair it? I cannot return it for a new one because the warrenty is void. Thought maybe I could target which switch is bad, or electronic board and replace.

Thanks for the help.....