K-Line's 2004 catalog going up on their website

[brianel027]

Hey gang, just thought I'd let you all know that K-Line is in the process of downloading their 2004 catalog on their website.

I haven't been too impressed with any of their operating stuff so far. But I will note they're introducing their own version of the classic Aquarium Car and it looks pretty darn nice. A slightly different take on the aquarium car and a good idea! I was impressed with that one. No mention of whether it's a gear driven or motor driven car. There's also an operating Milk Car that's a little different from the Lionel version... the door is off to one side instead of centered. There's also operating Box Cars but no mention of how they operate or what they do.

Of course there's gobs of scale stuff (I could care less) that I'm sure will excite some of you. I didn't look at itemized listings. Train sets listed in Volume 1 all have scale sized engines - obviously these sets are for kids that are a "tad" older. Very little on the traditional sized department that is really new roadname wise. The ATSF A-A Alco FA is the only traditionally sized engines listed. Although there are a couple of totally new early-era woodside cars - a box car and a gondola. The box car looks a little dorky, but I will say much of what I see from K-Line looks better in person once it comes out than the catalog illustrations (which is preferable to the other way around!). They've also taken the scale modern tank car body and put it on a frame (probably plastic - no mention). These cars are all at $19.95 so K-Line is to be commended for that.

There are a few more 027 Keystone salute series cars.

More road names in the S-scale cars, though higher prices on the licensed ones like Coke, Ford, etc.
And I didn't check it out, but there are Scale 2-rail items listed.

K-Line notes catalogs are being mailed and that they are updating the website daily. So check it out should you be inclined....

[Anonymous]

Thanks Brian. I still look although I never buy any K-line. Like Big_Boy says, I should venture into other companies other than Lionel. I may.

[spankybird]

Hi Brian,
I do lilke the new refers. Looks like they are going head to head with Atlas. I don't
care for the price, but do like the cars.

tom

[Anonymous]

Brian,

I got hooked on the K-Line engines back in 2001 when they offered the Pennsy GG1 with horn, bell, railsounds, and TMCC for $179 as part of their collectors club. I wasn't expecting much for this price but was really impressed by the engine which is still running smooth to this day. Since then I have purchased their annual engine offering which goes for a great price and got me interested in K-Line. It was a great idea on their part, and probably something that I would love to see the other manufacturers do as well. Offer a great car (doesn't have to be an engine) at a great price which will then introduce us to their other stuff. It worked for me with K-Line and now I have added a few other cars and passenger sets to my collection as well thanks to their collectors club.

[brianel027]

Well Red, K-Line's been doing this for years. I thought the MP-15 engine was a good deal when that was the offering. But the hobby has changed - buyers are demanding more and the companies are trying to deliver.

When I got into the hobby again, I don't know how many times I heard "K-Line is junk." This was in part a put down on the using of the old Marx dies and the 027-ish emphasis of the line. I've always said the new scale stuff is great and offers something new for those who want it. The problem is that the scale stuff has come at the cost of the kinds of trains a young beginner would get. I'll come back to that thought....

I have the new catalog in my hands. And the emphasis of offerings is on the scale end. Road names are pretty much the same ol' standard fare from the postwar fallen flag era.

I recently made the comment that the 3 big companies are in hot competition and one will not sit by while the other raises the bar.... K-Line has new scale 40 foot wood reefers that have many similar features and details like the new Lionel Milk Cars including removeable roofs and hidden coupler tabs! K-Line has many more colorful schemes though. There's also a new Outside Braced Woodside Hopper that is die-cast construction.

The new woodside "near-scale size" early-era gondolas and boxcars I mentioned at the top are part of what's called "The Husky Line" and are intended for beginning modelers (kids). The cars are the same ones that also come in a extended line of battery powered train sets at $39.95. The Husky Cars come with die-cast 3-rail trucks... the set cars do not. I don't know how well these battery powered sets do for introducing kids to the hobby (from what I've seen they don't). Like last year's battery Coke set, these sets come with plastic 2-rail track, though the trains run on any 3-rail track. These new battery sets come with a GP-9. I think it'd be better to go back to some of the sets K-Line once offered for this intent like the Cross Country sets.

But the price point is right. BUT whether you'd ever see these sets in a department store at Christmas (when and where you tend to see these cheaper sets - and where parents tend to shop) is doubtful. Maybe sales on last year's battery set were good?

The traditional starter sets are the same ones as last year. There are also the scale engine and car sets. Only one new Train-19 car.

The copy states "Fish swimming in real water" on the new Aquarium Car. I think it meant that it looks as though the fish are in water. No mention of having to add real water to the car! Alsoo mention in the catalog either of the aquarium car drive mechanism. Not a clone of the Lionel aquarium car - a different take - very nice looking though with a $50 list. I like the looks of this. A good idea.

The operating box car and milk car are both from the recent scale sized dies. The operating box car unloads either crates or barrels. A man appears, but it looks as though this is just for looks as the barrels and crates unload next to the man, not in front of him. The milk car has the same man but he appears to be part of the action on this car. Milk cans load into the same side door where they come out. The copy says "working conveyor inside." There is also a more realistic loading platform that comes with the milk car and for separate sale. Operating box cars are $60 and milk cars are $100. These cars will probably attract some attention!

Also rather amusing how both Lionel and K-Line have operating Ford dealerships. Both have showroom windows where the cars rotate inside. Which is better is a matter of preference. But the K-Line one is $140 and the Lionel one is $400.

The big sleeper may be this one... There is also a totally cool Operating Speeder Shed with an operating turntable (which looks kind of like a 90° crossing minus one side) and a Speeder for $130. I haven't been too impressed with the operating stuff in the past... swing sets and moving trucks... but this is a very cool idea. I think this one will be a real hit! Can a Lionel version be far behind?

Well, like a good movie - I don't want to give everything away. As I said above, not much new at all for the traditionally-sized operator. K-Line also lowered 027 track prices as Lionel did. Guess you'll have to check out the catalog. I think the "Getting the Bad Guys" cars on pages 2-3 are dumb (nor prototypical!) but it's more than obvious that K-Line is out to try and get the other guys with their expanded line-up.

[Anonymous]

Well said as always, Brian. After reading many of your posts, I agree with you in that the hobby has left little kids behind.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RedCaboose522

Well said as always, Brian. After reading many of your posts, I agree with you in that the hobby has left little kids behind.

Probably because the advent of videogames has prompted kids to leave the hobby behind?? I dunno.

Wouldn't the $40 K-Line starter sets be a step in the right direction? For a few dollars more than the chintzy HO sets you find at that price point, you get an honest-to-to-goodness O gauge train that is compatible with regular rolling stock, and you won't feel sick to the stomach if Junior derails it. Plus he/she can run and control it on an existing layout independent of any other trains /control schemes.

I agree the Coke set didn't have a lot going for it, but the newer set looks to make up for the previous offering's shortcomings. It looks like a "normal" freight train. Getting kids back into the hobby isn't going to be the easiest thing in the world--it hasn't been a "kids" hobby since it last went out of style in the 1960's.

But at least these sets can be intermixed with higher-quality stuff should the kid take an interest in trains and learn to take care of what he's got. I'm sure the size difference won't bother any kid who is showing an interest, assuming the grownups around them haven't inadvertently taught them to rivet count or expect that all their boxcars must have the same roofline.

I myself have met parents who've balked at the cost of typical 'O' starter sets. Previously, I'd advise them to look at getting a Williams engine and an assortment of inexpensive freight cars on sale, impressing that one does not have to necessarily start with a boxed set, that they could build their own and tailor it to their own liking.

Nowadays, I'd certainly point them toward this K-Line set before letting them choose a $29.95 HO clunker that may not even survive the Christmas season intact.

---PCJ

[Roger Bielen]

My hard copy came in the mail yesterday. On page 23 they are offering some upgrades for their TMCC engines to Cruise Control for $69.95, reg. $119.95, for a limited time. If your engine isn't on the list they recommend contacting Digital Dynamics.

[brianel027]

Railride, I could really say a lot here. I've been on the front line at train shows where kids were welcome. I was there many times with a small, but interesting and detailed door sized layout running more affordable types of trains. No rope around the layout. Any kid who wanted a chance to run the trains got one. I've talked with kids and parents and there is interest. I also ran smaller trains in current roadnames. NEVER once did I hear a kid get excited about the Nickel Plate Road, the Pennsy or the NYC! I did hear kids get excited about Conrail and Norfolk Southern... "Look dad, that's like the train we saw the other day!!" "Hey I recognize that train - we see that one when we drive by the train yard."

The last period where this was a kids hobby was the MPC era of Lionel. They made a real effort to make an affordable wide selection of starter sets, even if certain elements of "postwar" quality weren't there. I know a number of people who got their start with an MPC set. Also, MPC product was available at department stores. K-Mart carried an extensive selection at one time including track, separate sale cars and accessories.

Video games get blamed alot. Yes, kids like video games. They also have exposure. Kids know about video games. They're for sale EVERYWHERE. Kids don't know about toy trains. Believe me I've asked. Toy trains are not for sale everywhere. Looking at many recent catalogs, one could argue that there is no such thing anymore as toy trains. I show parents the catalogs and their reaction is shock. I hear things like "well, these train aren't for children." Sure, there's a few... a few pages devoted to lower end product and the other 95 pages devoted to expensive scale end adult oriented prouduct. In the case of Lionel, people croak when they see $60 for a flat car with a truck on it. Even seasoned train buyers gasp when they see $1,200 for a train engine... imagine the reaction of someone looking at the Lionel catalog for the very first time.

The biggest train show in the country, attended by all the train manufacturers and importers, is pretty much an adult affair. The emphasis is not on families with kids... it's on the collector market and seeing the latest hi-tech scale product. You don't just buy a family pass and walk in like you would at the local firehouse or Armory train show. You need to join the TCA and register well in advance. So much for the spontaneous plan for the family outing to the big train show.

And yes, kids are very on top of the newest technology today. But I've also witnessed kids' amazement from seeing something work with sheer simplicity. So much stuff today is "push a button, do nothing and watch it work." I've found kids are fascinated by seeing things like gravity and push-pull motion at work.

There have ALWAYS been "cheap" trains. Lionel had the Scout steamers and the single axle drive Alcos. And there was Marx - which was pretty decent stuff for the price. What's different today is the "attitude." Now it's dad's layout, not the kid's layout. Now it's "ask your dad if you can play with his trains?" rather than dad playing with his son's trains and building a layout. Even the photo with the K-Line battery sets illustrate this.

The battery sets I've seen and know people that have bought them are basically throw away sets. Simple as that. At least the New Bright sets and others are available at WalMart and K-Mart. The K-Line sets are not. Granted, they are what they are. And for around $40 at least they're available. But I wouldn't expect to see them make much of a surge of interest in the hobby. I think the Cross Country Sets from K-Line did a better job of this... but K-Line has abandoned the S-2 and the old Marx cars are now the backbone of the 'S' gauge line.

I give Lionel credit for at least maintaining a decent selection of starter sets and always changing the road names on the $25 starter cars. There is a new Thomas set coming (hopefully better quality than the last one). K-Line has the Construction Set which is a good one for kids. A little pricey for some, but it has one heck of a good transfomer with it now... but how many beginners are aware of the benefit of this? MTH is coming out with a SpongeBob set... their little Dockside steamer is one heck of a nice, well made engine for any kid's first train! Now if MTH can just get it out there!!

I feel strongly on this topic. Maybe if I hadn't done so many train shows and talked to so many parents and kids I might not know or feel the way I do. I don't know how many times I was asked "where can I buy that Conrail (or Norfolk Southern) engine you have? And I had to tell people that no one makes them in that size and in those roads. I painted and/or made those myself. For those who still showed interest, I let them know about Williams and some of the smaller Railking offerings. I also heard many times when running the early Railking Dash-8 or the FP diesel that those are too big.

But the train hobby is also the train business. The money right now is with the what the adults want to buy and those are not toy trains. It may be good business logic for today, but the jury is out on what it holds for the future.

[Anonymous]

My boy and his friend spend a lot of time in the card shop, and playing a game with those stupid looking cards. On a recent Amtrak trip they were so engrossed with that card game that they didn’t get off the train until I went back on board and got them.

Remember that the new K-Line Alco FA units need Brian’s spring under the front truck modification. Otherwise, the front truck wants to jump the track under full load. (I have the part numbers if needed.) That FA Set is now pulling six MTH 027 passenger coaches for an hour or more. The engine must be well oiled.

Dose anyone know if the K-Line RS-3 has the same drive mechanism as the Alco FA and older S-2?



Richard

[brianel027]

Richard, nope. The newer K-Line diesels including the RS-3 have a larger DC vertically mounted motor that can be seen when the shell is removed.

The Alco FA, the S-2, MP-15 and the Budd Cars all have truck mounted DC can motors with a spur gear drive. The S-2 and Budd Cars aren't made anymore, but can be found on ebay.

Richard, boys will be boys... even when I was a kid there were plenty of boys who had no interest in trains. I had friends back then who could have cared less. But, back then we were all aware of toy trains. And everyone knew they were being made and knew where to find them.

[Anonymous]

Brian,

Thanks for the info about the K-Line RS-3. I may have to order one of those rubber tire engines, because of my Lionel GP-9 Magne-Traction not sticking to the club’s Gargraves stainless steel track. My kitchen table is 9 foot long with the two leafs installed, and I have an 8-½ foot loop of the new Lionel FasTrack. Besides FasTrack looking a lot more prototype with small wood ties, the steel rails are flat on top giving Magne-Traction full sticking power. I really notice the difference. If I ever do build my own layout, it will be with Lionel FasTrack. The only drawback is that the trains must be operated very slow, or the hollow rails and plastic roadbed acts like a megaphone. Also, Lionel didn’t make 027 curved sections. I could build another layout in the wasted space inside the 036 FasTrack loop. Hopefully, next year‘s Catalog will bring in 027 FasTrack.


Richard

[Anonymous]

i've registered for a catolog on the kline website but they have never came. tried a few times but haven' t got any.[xx(] let me guess somtime ill probably get 5 kline catologs in the mail![:P][:o)]