What's the most cars you pull?

[Tommy0218]

Wow, I just caught up to the response to my question ("I don't get it").

Since I was thinking 'O' guage or standard guage electric trains, 175-200 car long trains seemed like an attempt at a joke.

I still find it incredible that anyone has a layout, much less a standard guage layout large enough to actually pull that many cars!

I estimate that an 'O' guage train of 180 cars would be about 170-180 feet long . Standard guage would increase that by what- 50 to 75 percent?

I'd love to see it.

runtime

We did this run about 2 years ago. The engines were on loan as well as about 120 of the cars. The track was from a club based in the Tennessee area - but remember, this was 1.20.3 scale better known as "G" gauge or what NMRA has determined as "Fn3".

But yes, standard gauge would mean a much larger engine as well as the track itself. The engines had to be custom made as we were unable to find any manufacturer who could build a standard gauge loco. 99.9% of engines in this scale are designed to run on 45 mm track only. The engines and cars we ran, operated on 72 or 73 mm width.

I am working on building my own Triplex or maybe even a 2-8-8-2 in this scale. 

 

[runtime]

Wow, I just caught up to the response to my question ("I don't get it").

Since I was thinking 'O' guage or standard guage electric trains, 175-200 car long trains seemed like an attempt at a joke.

I still find it incredible that anyone has a layout, much less a standard guage layout large enough to actually pull that many cars!

I estimate that an 'O' guage train of 180 cars would be about 170-180 feet long . Standard guage would increase that by what- 50 to 75 percent?

I'd love to see it.

runtime

[Tommy0218]

On the other hand, had the prototype not had so many flaws, I think it would have generated more speed overall the the Big Boy.  

 

Translation:  if the Triples were a Big boy, it could generate the Big Boy's power.

The flaws in the design of the engine were not trivial but integral to it:  it was a product of Drag Era thinking taken to extremes.  Low dirvers, small grate, inefficient heating, and over-complicated plumbing.  As an engineering testbed, the Triplex was useful, but it's life as a working locomotive was doomed before the first rivet was driven. 

 

As for the models, you cannot scale down physics:  the performance of the models do not in any useful way reflect the performance of the prototypes.

Actually your translation is distorted. I am not saying the Triplex was a successfull locomotive by any means, I simply stated that when comparing engines in the articulated family, this had more PULLING FORCE than a big boy and I was NOT REFERENCING SPEED as I have previously stated. Personally, I would have went with a 2-8-8-2 vs the Triplex any day of the week.

But back to the original question from the OP concerning "The most cars you pull", our triplex outperformed under the same weight than the big boy. The engines we ran were live steam, coal fired & based on actual blueprints from the prototypes including overall design and specs. Every coal car in the consist was of the same height, weight and design.

[palallin]

On the other hand, had the prototype not had so many flaws, I think it would have generated more speed overall the the Big Boy.  

 

Translation:  if the Triples were a Big boy, it could generate the Big Boy's power.

The flaws in the design of the engine were not trivial but integral to it:  it was a product of Drag Era thinking taken to extremes.  Low dirvers, small grate, inefficient heating, and over-complicated plumbing.  As an engineering testbed, the Triplex was useful, but it's life as a working locomotive was doomed before the first rivet was driven. 

 

As for the models, you cannot scale down physics:  the performance of the models do not in any useful way reflect the performance of the prototypes.

[Tommy0218]

I think our math agrees, more or less.  As I said, the triplex had "about half again as much [tractive effort] as a Big Boy."  Actually 160000 is only 18 percent more than 135375.  But tractive effort is only one component of power; the other is speed.  And the Big Boy was a much faster locomotive and more powerful than the triplex because of that.  Big Boy 4016 was measured at 6290 drawbar horsepower in 1943 at 41.1 miles per hour on a .57 percent grade.

One thing that reduced the triplex's power was that half the steam, that exhausted to the air from the low-pressure cylinders on the tender, was not available to the firebox, to increase draft.  Another difficulty was that that great tractive effort could be reached only by having the tender fully loaded.  As the tender emptied, the tractive effort dropped to something more like the Big Boy's.

Bob,

I will agree to the fact that YES the big boy could without a doubt generate higher speeds than that of the Triplex however, when you compare engine per engine - the Triplex still could outpull the bigboy hands down at 5 - 10 mph. I was not referencing speed here as you mentioned but rather pulling force. This is the reason why Baldwin only built a total of 3.

I also prefer the design of the Triplex over the Big Boy and I can only testify to the run we did about 2 years ago. The 1.20.3 Triplex actually pulled 10 more cars than the Big Boy in the same scale - running about 15-20 scale miles per hour. But then again the models we were running had less problems than the prototypes. On the other hand, had the prototype not had so many flaws, I think it would have generated more speed overall the the Big Boy.  

Happy RR

 

[lionelsoni]

I think our math agrees, more or less.  As I said, the triplex had "about half again as much [tractive effort] as a Big Boy."  Actually 160000 is only 18 percent more than 135375.  But tractive effort is only one component of power; the other is speed.  And the Big Boy was a much faster locomotive and more powerful than the triplex because of that.  Big Boy 4016 was measured at 6290 drawbar horsepower in 1943 at 41.1 miles per hour on a .57 percent grade.

One thing that reduced the triplex's power was that half the steam, that exhausted to the air from the low-pressure cylinders on the tender, was not available to the firebox, to increase draft.  Another difficulty was that that great tractive effort could be reached only by having the tender fully loaded.  As the tender emptied, the tractive effort dropped to something more like the Big Boy's.

[Tommy0218]

A triplex, with a full tender, had about 850000 pounds on its drivers, which indeed gave it a very high tractive effort, about half again as much as a Big Boy.  However, power is tractive effort multiplied by speed; and it was severely limited by its boiler to a speed of only 5 or 10 miles per hour, making it not very powerful at all.

You may want to re-check your math as tractive effort in a big boy was about 135,375 vs tractive effort in a Triplex was around 160,000. The Big Boy was probably the largest in history however, not in terms of power.

We attemped articulated and other engines similiar to a big boy and I am sorry to inform you that they didn't even come close to the the success we had with the Triplex.

 

[lionelsoni]

A triplex, with a full tender, had about 850000 pounds on its drivers, which indeed gave it a very high tractive effort, about half again as much as a Big Boy.  However, power is tractive effort multiplied by speed; and it was severely limited by its boiler to a speed of only 5 or 10 miles per hour, making it not very powerful at all.

[Tommy0218]

Oh, let's see.........I normally pull anywhere from 175 - 200

I don't get it. What does that mean?

runtime

You don't get it ?????   The question was What is the most cars you pull?  I have an average of around 180 cars on my layout. What part are you not getting ?

I don't pull any.  I let my locos do that!(In this forum, please reat that in the singular, loco, as I have only one O-guage train.)

Ok, well then let me rephrase - I leave the work to the motive power (3 engines) to be precise.

I think the OP was asking, although not precisely, how many cars in one train.  I've never seen more than 110 behind five big engines in 1:1 scale.  (going back to my first post, four is my max and my minimum as enforced by my twin sons)

I once ran 3 triplex engines - all in 1.20.3 (Standard gauge) that actually did pull 180 cars, all empty of course. Keep in mind that the pull was on a level grade only. I don't personally own this many cars, I have around 60 in my collection and the rest were on loan from other individuals. Considering the triplex was and probably still is the most powerful engine in the world with a full tender - the prototype was designed to pull a coal drag nearly 5 miles long.

So with this in mind, the engines I ran are just as powerful in the scale world of 1.20.3, however the original question from the OP was "How long are you trains in a layout" and "What is the most cars you pull"? - so I interpreted this as plural meaning more than one train. As far as one single engine, I have run up to but no more than 65 on a single engine in 1.20.3 standard gauge.

[HEdward]

Oh, let's see.........I normally pull anywhere from 175 - 200

I don't get it. What does that mean?

runtime

You don't get it ?????   The question was What is the most cars you pull?  I have an average of around 180 cars on my layout. What part are you not getting ?

I don't pull any.  I let my locos do that!(In this forum, please reat that in the singular, loco, as I have only one O-guage train.)

Ok, well then let me rephrase - I leave the work to the motive power (3 engines) to be precise.

I think the OP was asking, although not precisely, how many cars in one train.  I've never seen more than 110 behind five big engines in 1:1 scale.  (going back to my first post, four is my max and my minimum as enforced by my twin sons)

[Tommy0218]

Oh, let's see.........I normally pull anywhere from 175 - 200

I don't get it. What does that mean?

runtime

You don't get it ?????   The question was What is the most cars you pull?  I have an average of around 180 cars on my layout. What part are you not getting ?

I don't pull any.  I let my locos do that!(In this forum, please reat that in the singular, loco, as I have only one O-guage train.)

Ok, well then let me rephrase - I leave the work to the motive power (3 engines) to be precise.

[HEdward]

Oh, let's see.........I normally pull anywhere from 175 - 200

I don't get it. What does that mean?

runtime

You don't get it ?????   The question was What is the most cars you pull?  I have an average of around 180 cars on my layout. What part are you not getting ?

I don't pull any.  I let my locos do that!(In this forum, please reat that in the singular, loco, as I have only one O-guage train.)

[Tommy0218]

Oh, let's see.........I normally pull anywhere from 175 - 200

I don't get it. What does that mean?

runtime

You don't get it ?????   The question was What is the most cars you pull?  I have an average of around 180 cars on my layout. What part are you not getting ?

[MOPACnut]

depends on what type of train i'm running. If it's a steam era train as many as 40 cars. a latter day freight maybe 30. Intermodals at 20-30 ( depending on how many articulateds the're are). or 15 86' high cubes plus 4 auto carriers. Right now i have a 22 car OGEX coal train on my layout (got room for a few more cars on it if i can find them).

Oh wait. I just realized this is the Classic toy trains forum. I was talking HO scale

[MOPACnut]

depends on what type of train i'm running. If it's a steam era train as many as 40 cars. a latter day freight maybe 30. Intermodals at 20-30 ( depending on how many articulateds the're are). or 15 86' high cubes plus 4 auto carriers. Right now i have a 22 car OGEX coal train on my layout (got room for a few more cars on it if i can find them).

[runtime]

Oh, let's see.........I normally pull anywhere from 175 - 200

I don't get it. What does that mean?

runtime

[Tommy0218]

Oh, let's see.........I normally pull anywhere from 175 - 200

[Anonymous]

The curves are O-45 and yes the GP-30s are both dual motored, with cruise (one Odessey and the other Legacy).

[runtime]

25 cars is impressive, 'though you didn't say if it's an 031 loop. Also curious if the GP30s are dual motor.

Can't currently run more than one train. I'll just keep making it longer, and swapping out engines 'till I settle on an expansion plan. Also going to try for a '...most tinplate cars train on 031'.

runtime

[Anonymous]

Over the weekend I had 25 cars on the second level, first pulled by two Chessie GP-30s and then with each GP-30 individually. They pulled them alone, but I didn't like the noise coming out of the motors so returned to double-heading duty.

Once I have the passenger station tracks installed I can start messing around with various configurations for trains. Hope to have this done this week as I have some company coming in this weekend...

Hope to have the three loops powered and have three trains running this weekend. I need to get one of my steamers upgraded to TMCC w/cruise so I can run trains on the second level. The max up there will be steamer w/7 passenger cars AND the double headed GP-30s with 10-13 cars. On the first level I'll have two trains on independant loops running 5 - 7 passenger cars and one running upto 13 freight. Will be interesting to see all this in action.

[RockIsland52]

Jack,

Thanks for the interest. I'm using a 646 Lionel SF Hudson I picked up recently. A honey of an engine! I cleaned it's wheels, lubed all it's axles, and greased it's gears. Same for all 21 freight cars. The F3 ABA has not yet been cleaned and is therefore not in service. I have tried a pair of MPC era Geeps instead of the Hudson, and the two of them can roughly match the Hudson, but draw more power. One alone just spins its wheels. I'll report back after I get the F3 cleaned up, but I'm tempted to clean up some more freight cars first to try to find the answer to 'max cars on an 031 layout'. The layout is roughly 12 x 15.

runtime

My 2046 Hudson is my strongest puller and is the headliner on my pseudo Polar Express set up at Christmas.  I have nothing to compare with some of the monster pullers the guys in this thread are talking about, but I'd guess your dual motored F3 NYC would hold its own in this discussion.

Jack 

[fifedog]

runtime - I answered your guestion on SPF.  But after reading your post here, gotta let ya know those 70 footers don't get along with O-31 curves...sorry.

[runtime]

Jack,

Thanks for the interest. I'm using a 646 Lionel SF Hudson I picked up recently. A honey of an engine! I cleaned it's wheels, lubed all it's axles, and greased it's gears. Same for all 21 freight cars. The F3 ABA has not yet been cleaned and is therefore not in service. I have tried a pair of MPC era Geeps instead of the Hudson, and the two of them can roughly match the Hudson, but draw more power. One alone just spins its wheels. I'll report back after I get the F3 cleaned up, but I'm tempted to clean up some more freight cars first to try to find the answer to 'max cars on an 031 layout'. The layout is roughly 12 x 15.

runtime

[RockIsland52]

This forum initially got me going to try to find the answer to this question on my 031 layout.

After not being able to pull even 10 cars with a postwar F3 ABA without a lot of slippage, I set about cleaning and lubing every wheel and axle. I also judiciously included about 40% late psotwar lightweight 9" box cars. I'm now up to pulling 21 cars with a postwar Hudson, or alternatively, 2 MPC Geeps.

I'd be curious to hear about max cars pulled by others on 031 layouts.

runtime

runtime.....

which postwar Hudson do you have?  How many did the F3 ABA pull after the cleaning and lube?  And were the tracks and loco wheels cleaned as well?

Thanks,

Jack

[Andrew Falconer]

On a 12 x 12 track layout the most cars that are reasonable would be 16 cars.

25 cars in a train on the track is possible, but a bit cumbersome.

Andrew

[runtime]

This forum initially got me going to try to find the answer to this question on my 031 layout.

After not being able to pull even 10 cars with a postwar F3 ABA without a lot of slippage, I set about cleaning and lubing every wheel and axle. I also judiciously included about 40% late psotwar lightweight 9" box cars. I'm now up to pulling 21 cars with a postwar Hudson, or alternatively, 2 MPC Geeps.

I'd be curious to hear about max cars pulled by others on 031 layouts.

runtime

[Anonymous]

But Don, those two engines of yours probably weigh more than me .

Now, for another fun thing, lash up a couple of Lionel Dockside Switchers and tell us what they pulled. I don't own enough cars to have bottomed them out, yet.

[HEdward]

How long are your trains that you usually run on your layout?  Any really long trains?

In my last post on the MR forum I proudly announced that I was being of no help what-so-ever.  Then I saw this topic and thought I'd be just as helpful here.  My Marx train, about 60 years old, has a 2-4-2, tender, box car, gondola, tank car and caboose.  It runs on a loop about 19 feet long and 6 feet wide.  So my upper limit is 4 cars and if I leave any of them off, my sons(now age 2)let me hear about it!

[dbaker48]

Night before last, just ran the longest train ever run.  Did a Lashup with a Big Boy and Cab Forward, 63 cars.  That was all the cars that we could find.  It was cool.