Lionel FasTrack: Great idea but again Lionel doesn't know how to intro a product!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roger Bielen

Amtrak Jack,

I just got home from my local Lionel dealer and he has Fastrack to O-gauge Transition Pieces on the shelve, with shimming it could probably also do O27. He also has a number of the other items in the new cat. on the shelve. Don't ask me which ones, I didn't pay that much attention, we were just kicking around what I read about on the forum.

Thanks Roger! I did notice that myself today! Look for my other post about FasTrack.

[dmestan]

Matt-
I bought the same set and also have the problem with the black center rail. I called Lionel and they issued me a return authorization to send back the black center track in exchange for the silver. You should call Lionel and ask them to do the same if you intend to buy other track pieces since all they make now is the silver center rail.

Don

[Anonymous]

Hello all i bought the penn set for my daughters for X-mas, wish i hadn't. The stuff is noisey even on my out dated shag carpet. The other thing I noticed was some extra rail I bought, the center rail wasn't black as in the set? I wish I would have bought them an S-helper service set instead.

carpenter matt

[brianel027]

Richard, the disadvantage on the spray foam is that you won't be able to access the bottom of the track should you need to. Plus even on sale, the spray foam could get costly. But you could certainly give it a try. Beware that foam dries pretty fast in those nozzles - which you know if you've used the stuff before. Using Play Dough could get expensive and I don't think it would work that well.
I thought the carpet padding because it does have an insulating quality to it. And I know I've seen carpet places throw away left over pieces, odds and ends. The stuff is certainly cuttable with scissors and wuld be easy enough to remove should you need to.
Even those sheets of egg-cushion foam that folks overlay on their mattresses might help. Again, easily cuttable and removeable... you could experiment with that concept by using a scrap piece of the soft foam that comes with electronics, computers etc. Try laying some heavy winter foot socks underneath the track to see how if that helps deaden sound. I'm just trying to think of cheap things you can try that won't permanently alter the track.
Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Brian, at present the 8-½ foot FasTrack loop is on our kitchen table This table is a very solid wood table with a 3/8 inch felt pad. We also tried the FasTrack on the living room carpet, and it still had that hollow sound. What I’m planning on doing is fill the bottom side of a few sections with spray can Styrofoam (the type that Home Depot sells), then after the Styrofoam hardens trim it flush with the bottom of the FasTrack section. That way, I will be able to hear the difference as a train passes over the Styrofoam filled sections.

There are probably other sound deadening materials that can be sprayed into the bottom of those hollow FasTrack sections. Maybe Play Dough, or some other soft putty will be better? Play Dough is not toxic for the kids.

Richard

[brianel027]

Richard, one thing you might try when you get to building a layout is to put some kind of insulation beneath the FasTrack. I don't know if having indoor/outdoor carpet for a covering over the board would help. I've heard a few others mention the exceedingly high noise level. But maybe you could try like that padding they use for laying down carpeting. You could cut it in strips to stuff under the FasTrack. Probably a carpet store would sell you or let you have some scrap pieces.
Again, I don't know the FasTrack system real well, but just a suggestion from other train layout experience. Also if you use a pine for the frame of the train board with plywood on top, you could try using nylon screws to hold the plywood to the frame for less noise transfer. Homosote board instead of plywood will absorb more noise. In the meantime while waiting to build the real layout, I suppose even that carpet used for hallways and runners (I've seen it in green and gray-brown) would help absorb some noise... unless you already have the oval on carpet. Which would make me say "Gee, I guess the stuff is noisy."

Yep, I can relate to your boy... I've probably had a few cuts over the years from ol' 027 track. Again, the pros and cons. And again, one of the reasons I'm sure Lionel is pushing the FasTrack with sets.

[Roger Bielen]

Amtrak Jack,

I just got home from my local Lionel dealer and he has Fastrack to O-gauge Transition Pieces on the shelve, with shimming it could probably also do O27. He also has a number of the other items in the new cat. on the shelve. Don't ask me which ones, I didn't pay that much attention, we were just kicking around what I read about on the forum.

[Anonymous]

Brain, we have an 8-½ foot long oval of FasTrack hooked up to the new Lionel CW-80 Transformer. The only glaring fault with the system is noise. The CW-80 has a noisy cooling fan, and the FasTrack loop is like a megaphone with its hollow road bed . The kids love it, and I doubt if they will setup the old Lionel 0-27 track again. My boy actually cut his finger with the old track.

Richard

[Anonymous]

aah....what cha gonna do..?[?]

[brianel027]

Richard (trail_cam), I can't speak for others but I'm glad you like the FasTrack. I hope the new switches and other items are well received. I've always said, the more options available, the more likely that people will be pleased. Nothing is ever perfect. Each track system comes with it's pros and cons - visual, performance and price. It is too bad they're not all a little more compatible with eachother, but that's how it is. I don't think we'll see MTH and Lionel cooperating any time real soon.
As you work with the FasTrack and notice things that could be improved, let Lionel know about it. Already we've seen the color of the center rail change from black to silver. Sure, Lionel wants to make money. But since they've made an investment in FasTrack, I'm sure they want people to like and use the track.

My mom used to jokingly say "you're entitled to your opinions, even if you are dead wrong." And I would jokingly reply "but what's wrong for you, may be right on for me."

I like 027 track. But what's right for me, might not be for others. And even I have to remind myself that my opinions are indeed just MY opinions.

[Anonymous]

All this talk about engines slowing down on FasTrack has me experimenting. I reversed the direction of the train with the engine on the other end pulling forward. Guess what? The engine now slows down in a different spot that is closer to the lock-on. That means that some of the slowing down is mechanical, and not electrical. The combination of momentum and traction effort starts a rhythm. All & all, I think that Lionel did a great job with FasTrack. I noticed that the new train sets in the 2004 catalog include FasTrack, so that should take care of introducing the new track. I plan to stick with FasTrack, and so does my magne traction engines.

Richard

[Anonymous]

" keep the /RealTrack for the holiday under the tree layout and use something else on the layout."

That's my moto :)

The limited amount of Realtrax that I have will be used at Christmas time on the rug around the tree. In the meantime I'm ecstatic that O27 track prices are dropping. I imagine Lionel is purging thier O27 inventory but I could care less because to be honest as the price plummets for new stock track so it will drop for the used O27 stuff. And there is more O27 supply out there in circulation than one could shake a forest at!

Ken

[brianel027]

As the Ambassador of 027, I felt pleased to notice in the new 2004 on-line Lionel catalog that the prices on 027 track have been reduced! Regular track list dropped to 89¢ and manual switches went from $19.95 to $11.95. Now Lord knows labor costs in China are a fraction of what they once were. But if the push on FasTrack has also contributed to the new lower costs, I say bravo. For all it's disadvantages, I still feel 027 track offers price advantages as well as more small layout possibilities.
And reading about these power problems with FasTrack does make me wonder. As dmestan said, there should be no reason what-so-ever to need extra feeds on a simple oval of FasTrack... there's obviously a problem with the track. Maybe the new transformer too?
Ironic too that FasTrack and the new CW Lionel transformer came out at the same time and that there are problems with the transformer too. The unofficial word is that there are many defective transformers out there.
I would give the same advice to others that dmestan said... keep the FasTrack for the holiday under the tree layout and use something else on the layout.

These "advances" kind of reminds me of the Bruce Springsteen song... One step forward, two steps backwards.

[dmestan]

But for a small 40x60 oval you shouldn't expect to need feeders. As I said in my previous post, I have a much longer run of O27, no feeders, no problems. I'll keep the FastTrack to use under the Chrismas tree, nothing else.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Not out of phase, out of voltage.... add a set of feeders. This is not a problem specific to the type of track, it has to do with the joints between sections, and the distance away from a power source.

[Anonymous]

Yes, now that you mention it, my engine slows down on the opposite side of the loop from the transformer. Does that mean that the opposite side is out of phase?

Richard

[dmestan]

I had the same problem with my Pennsy Flyer set. Once the loco got to the opposite side the loop away from the power connector, it slowed down. Since then I purchased O27 track (didn't want to pay the high $$ for FastTrack.) I have about 30' of track with no additional feeders and have no problems with the engine slowing down. If you suspect conductivity and have an AC voltmeter you can check the voltage at each section of track and see if there is a drop.

[Anonymous]

gwarrin,

I have the same problem with slowing down, but on straight sections. I purchased a loop of FasTrack from one hobby shop, and later a few straight sections from another shop. It seems like the conductivity varies? Sure would like to find out how to fit it.


Richard

[Anonymous]

"""Now the only problem I have with Fastrack so far is that it seems that some of my engines slow down a bit in the curved sections anyone know why that is?"""

Check the width (Space) between the inside of the outer rails, this may not be 1.25 or 1.26 inches, if it's on the low side, drive wheels may be adding more friction, especially on the curve sections. Test this with the engine on the curve, no power, feel for any freedom of side play, any tight fit indicates added friction.

[Anonymous]

You guys didn't look into Atlas track when it came out, did you? Well, I did.
VERY similar circumstance ~ basic 'make the loop' track. Then a 45 crossing... then some switches. Pricey? ABSOLUTELY! Still is, IMHO. And do you remember all the problems with the Atlas 'first generation' rail joiners?
The advantage to Fastrack is that the 'ballast' is already there for those who don't want to bother with blending teenytiny stones and brushing it in and gluing it down ~ for about the same price as Atlas track WITHOUT the ballast! Add Woodland Scenics' costs, and the Atlas is less cost-effective, especially for the age group at which starter sets are aimed. That's why I'm selling off my Atlas track in favor of Fastrack. It's easier for my son to design and re-design a layout.
Similar-radius switches for Fastrack have been introduced recently ~ I'm sure more will follow.
As for Mr. Bliss ~ I would suggest that this is a LONG-TERM, RELAXING hobby, and that he should take his time and PLAN what he wants to do. By then, more Fastrack inventory will be available.

[brianel027]

I agree, FEC, it does "apprear" Lionel is committed to FasTrack. BUT remember (along the lines of what Big_Boy said) in the late 1950's Lionel catalogs illustrated product sitting on 'Super 0' track and that wasn't with us very long. Sets soon went back to the more economical 027 track. Whether this happens again, time will tell.
Good luck with your choice FEC.[:)] It will be folks like you that determine how much more variety will "eventually" be offered in FasTrack.

I do understand why Lionel came out with FasTrack. I also understand why every other U.S. company is closing down American plants and moving production to China - it doesn't mean that I agree though.
I felt and still feel there are basic improvements that could have been made to the 027 line of track that would have offered more realism, variety and also very importantly compatibility. A 34 inch radius curve (like what Marx once made) or a 36 inch would have been great. Insultated curved tracks. Improved electric switch wiring. Molded together flex ties that could be either snapped it by the consumer or by the factory. A blackened center rail. Take a look at the new 027 switch offered by K-Line... sure it's the same oversized footprint, BUT they've FINALLY done away with the oversized switch housing.
Much nicer looking for sure!!! Long overdue K-Line. Should have been done 10 years ago when I made the suggestion to someone no longer there.
FasTrack is in answer to MTH RealTrack, simple as that. It offers ease of assembly which is great for Christmas morning. Since most folks though end up building layouts, that issue becomes less relevant. The large roadbed size is certainly limiting on small layouts - same goes for the MTH track. And if you've ever seen a 4'x8' layout with MTH RealTrack, you'll know the overall view of the layout looks as prototypical as does 027 track.
I've never liked the extra height of '0' track, but I'd recommend K-Line SnapTrack to anyone building a 4'x8' layout today (who doesn't want 027 track) who wants the extra realism with convenience... at least with the K-Line track you have some layout options on a 4'x8' plus compatibility.

[FEClionel]

Thanks for the extended answer Big_Boy_4005!

I replaced all my O27 track this past weekend with Fastrack and I think its great for MY application. For starters I will say that I was reluctant to purchase Fastrack for two reasons, its expensive and the immediate selection is small and sometimes hard to find. However, as soon as I saw the Lionel 2004 catalog on Friday I knew that Lionel was investing into this products future. In 2004 they will now offer larger radius curves, new x-overs and numerous automatic switches and a Lionel first -Y switch! However an operating track is still missing. Also Fastrack IS compatable with O gauge track when you use the Fastrack O guage compatable track piece so you can connect with any existing O track you have. I use my compatible piece to connect my O operating track for use with the milk and barrel cars. I'm guessing that by the second 2004 catalog this item will be availible. I've also seen on Ebay an O27 compatible track piece. From the looks of the 2004 Lionel catalog where every set locomotive, rolling stock and accescary are sitting or next to Fastrack, I would say Lionel IS committed to this product and will now begin to fully market Fatrack and its new accessories.

Now the only problem I have with Fastrack so far is that it seems that some of my engines slow down a bit in the curved sections anyone know why that is?

[Anonymous]

The absolute ridiculous pricing is the number one reason I won't consider switching to Fastrack. That they are offering new track selections slowly and in piecemeal is another.

[Anonymous]

I do enjoy the new FasTrack system. Over the summer, I went out and picked up the Pennsy starter set just to get the track and new transformer. But I agree with you other guys:
Lionel should have been ready with other pieces.
I needed some more track to fit into my exsiting layout, and my local hobby shop owner had to open up a boxed set to get it! Some of the pieces that were listed in the catalog are out now, I believe, but they need more of a variety.
One of the things about it that made me mad though, was how you need a quick connector to power the track.

Other than that, I do enjoy the look, but I'm not ready yet to replace all of my track with it.

[Big_Boy_4005]

That's the facts Jack !!!

My heart goes out to Mr Bliss Jr., as he is the real victim of Lionel's master plan.

As long as we are on a fresh rant about Fastrack, I'd like to share a post of mine from a topic started a while back FEClionel that not many people have had a chance to read.

Well FEC, the question as to whether Fastrack is going to be around for a long time is really up to people like you. It really comes down to money. Can Lionel convince enough people to buy enough track to make it worth continuing to produce it.

Another piece to the puzzle rests with the hobby stores. Do they want to devote money and space to stock all of the components of this new system. Their answer will be driven by your answer. If you don't buy it, the stores won't re order it, and that will be the end of the line for this latest experiment in track by Lionel.

I was at one of the local hobby stores the other day, I hadn't been there in quite a while (I actually used to work there 12 years ago). I spent some time looking at the Fastrack and all of the components, and even broke down and spent $3.49 (plus tax) and bought a single piece of straight track to take home for reference.

The first thing I noticed when I was standing in the store was how expensive the stuff was. That 10" straight was as much as a 3' piece of Gargraves! The hookup wires were $2.99 which I thought was INSANE.

When I got home I took a much closer look at the track, and after a little head scratching, came to the conclusion that the total cost to produce, import and distribute this piece of track was under 50 cents. Where did the other $3 go ?

Further inspection revealed some interesting design elements, which were probably done with two things in mind, production cost savings, and deliberate incompatability with other systems. It is the incompatability issues that I find most disturbing. Some modification and be done by consumers, but many of the things that can be done with tubular track are difficult or impossible with Fastrack.

For my own use, I would never consider it, but my needs and your's are probably VERY different.

I'm not on the jury, you are, and you vote with your $$$$$$$.

[Anonymous]

Let me begin by saying that I love Lionel's new FasTrack and have replaced all my 027 track with FasTrack 036. But that's all the kudos I can give them on this at this time.

When I was in my local train store (Arizona trains) today, a man who I'll nickname "Mr. Bliss" and his son were very excited about buying their first 027 set, which is actually an 036 set now that FasTrack is in all the new starter sets. The problem? Mr. Bliss's bubble was quickly popped as soon as he found that he could not start building their "empire" right away. No remote switches and no radii other than 036. Well, Mr. Bliss didn't want to buy "regular" Lionel track to build his empire. He wanted that there fancy, new track called FasTrack. Sorry Mr. Bliss. Hope you can be patient. Maybe a year's wait or so? Maybe longer.

Was Lionel just testing the buyer's market when they created FasTrack? Could be, because there is no other reason why they would not have all bases covered before introducing their new track. What bases?

1) How do you join FasTrack to existing Lionel tubular track? Can't yet, unless you jam existing joiners into it. No insulated rail joiners to make your own insulated sections. You have to buy expensive insulated pre-made pieces.
2) Other radii is coming--but when? Their new catalog has it listed but we all know that means NOTHING AT ALL.

I suppose when introducing a new product line it is advisable to test the waters and not make too much until you see if your product sells. I just hope we don't lose Mr. Bliss and his son. Our hobby needs all the new blood it can get!