Toy Train Speed Control/ Preventing Derailments by Children

[Anonymous]

it seems like k-line is taking the more "fun" and inepensive way with O27. like lionel in the 1950's and 60's[8D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

Sorry Keith, just having a little fun. "They don't so much fly, as plummet!!" is taken from an old Monty Python sketch about flying sheep.[:D]

It is interesting how some of these old and forgotten topics have been revived with the influx of all the new people. This isn't the first topic that this has happened to, and I doubt that it will be the last. I have noticed that they get a slight twist, a different perspective, when they get dusted off. This is neither good or bad , but simply different.

The original responses were very narrow, and assumed that the trains were being run on a table, though that was never stated by the person who asked the question. We still have no idea where this person's layout is. Maybe it is a large fully scenicked layout, and maybe it was a simple loop of track under the Christmas tree, that could be easily moved. Either way it is interesting to see how different people see the same question in different ways.[:)]

[brianel027]

Thanks NH Chris - that's good to hear.
I would have like to gone just to get the smaller sized CNJ hoppers and bay window caboose. Don't care for the loco though.

Like I've said before, when I show catalogs to folks with kids, the reactions are not always encouraging for the hobby based on what they are seeing. Yes, K-Line is offering the battery powered sets under the "Kids 0" banner. I'd be willing to guess K-Line picked up the tooling for this from other sources or the stuff is being made for them. From dealers I've talked with and from my own observations, the battery powered sets don't do much for the hobby. It might be different if these sets were available at big box retailers... from an advertising standpoint, at least it would get the K-Line name out there. But more than likely these sets will be only at K-Line dealers. I'd tell people that they're wasting $40 on a battery powered set and they should consider putting that $40 to a used electric set or a new Lionel electric set.

K-Line and MTH have some nice sets, but Lionel does have the best variety in the widest range of prices.

[NH_Chris]

Brianel:

Actually, you would have enjoyed the Feb Fair day in Edison, NJ. They did have activities for kids, including train races: two U-shaped tracks, with a helper where the trains ran off the track at the base of the U. All kids, all the time. They also had play areas where kids got to run trains on several layouts. They really did a good job for the kids, IMHO. Dads had fun, too, of course.

NH Chris

[jkerklo]

I think I have to agree with keithrd.

It is very difficult to limit train activity without making it uninteresting.

As I played with the trains as a child, if playing got too rough, the transformer got unplugged, for a "time out."

When I played nice with the trains, I got more track, trains, and accessories.

This works. I still have those trains. (actually half, brother got half.)

They still run, after 50 years. I still play nice with my trains ... and other toys.

John Kerklo
TCA 94-38455
www.Three-Rail.com

[Anonymous]

What I am saying is put the kids a set on the floor and let them play.
They will have to start someplace. I did not mean turn them loose
on a elevated layout.
Thanks
Keith

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by keithrd

Forget the limits let them be kids, like we ALL still are!
Thanks
Keith

Keith, that's OK for playing on the floor, but flying trains don't work at current prices. They don't so much fly, as plummet!![(-D][(-D][swg]

[Anonymous]

Forget the limits let them be kids, like we ALL still are!
Thanks
Keith

[Anonymous]

try an old 25 or 40 watt transformer.

i have an old lionel 25watt that i let the kids run on a carpet/floor loop and have almost no problems. (i only let them run single motor switchers with no accessories) 25 watts isn't enough to get most dual motor locos or postwar locos moving but the single motor modern types do well and cant get going fast enough to fly off the tracks with 027 curves.

[Roger Bielen]

The one thing we're all forgetting about is that any speed limiting device, other than Od., Crs. Ctrl., etc., is based on a a given number of cars/load. Should the child uncouple 1/2 the train there goes any limiting device. The best idea is a rug RR, inexpensive, & durable, engine and let them have fun.

[Anonymous]

I got my K-Line catalog and there are a couple of inexpensive lines of
rolling stock in there that are just right for children and have lots of
'play value'. I was especially impressed with the "Kids' O" set that is a
battery powered setup. That should also solve the over-speed problem
as well as the worries associated with 110v transformers. The fact that
it is compatible with "adult" layouts allows the children to feel included
in a hobby that is increasingly becoming "adult". The Husky line of
rolling stock is priced in such a way that a child can save up his/her
own money and increase the size of their "railroad empire". Another
good addition is the "Train 19" line which is a little more sophisticated
yet not any more expensive. I really think that K-Line is going to be a
leader/winner in this hobby as far as bringing in new people to con-
tinue on after this generation.

Their inexpensive locos like the Industrial Switcher are also great.

Sorry...This became a "rah-rah" for K-Line, but it seemed a natural
answer to the speed question and the issue of children playing with
"expensive" trains.

[brianel027]

Of course, Chris F makes a good point. So does Bob Nelson. Thanks guys.

It's too bad that the whole "view" of Lionel trains has changed over the years. Consider the typical discount price of around $130 for a basic Lionel set today. Probably not out of line with the typical set price during the 1950's. What has changed is the attitude that "whoa, better be careful, these trains are valuable collectibles."
A local VFW was raffling a Lionel Pennsy Flyer set in my neck of the woods. I stopped to buy a ticket and the guy gave me his sales pitch: "You know this set is worth over $400!" I just happened to have the Lionel catalog with me, so I corrected his slightly out of wack numbers. But this is the attitude we have today. It's almost hard to believe that the father's of a generation ago let their sons play with GG1's, F3's, Berkshires, Trainmasters, 6464 box cars, etc. etc.
BUT the sole reason these items TODAY are pricey collectibles is because WE, the adult train operators of today, were ALLOWED to play with them yesterday.
It's called "frame of reference" and it's something the kids of today will probably not have towards Lionel trains in the future.
I sincerly doubt too many kids today are allowed to "play" with train engines costing $500 and non-operating cars costing $60! I get a chuckle out of the line in the K-Line February Fair Days ad that says "Bring the kids." I guess that's so the kids get a chance to see the trains that only dad gets to play with.

[Chris F]

Okay, now that the train is slowed down, what's to prevent derailments from foreign objects? In the postwar days, it was Lincoln logs and plastic toy soldiers. These days, it might be big sister's Bratz dolls. Part of the excitement of toy trains for kids is train wrecks!

As an alternative, consider a "kids only" floor layout with a used diesel (e.g., K-Line S-2), some hoppers or gondolas, used O-27 track, and a simple transformer. These all can be obtained at low prices from vendors at train shows. The layout will cost more than modifying your Z-750 or electrical connections, but it will keep the kids involved without making you worry about damage to more expensive equipment.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Sorry, you're right Bob, it should be series. However, the electrical option is not my first choice here.

[lionelsoni]

Putting a load, whether a resistor or an incandescent lamp, in parallel with the track is not a good idea. If you succeed make any substantial reduction in the track voltage that way, you are almost certainly overloading the transformer. It is much better to add resistance in series with the track. I suggest one of the prewar Lionel rheostats, like the number 81, 88, or 95. The only trick is to locate it where the kids can't discover it and change the setting.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Yes they do Brian![swg]

Last night I noticed that this question hadn't gotten a very good response, so I decided to jump in, and beat you to it.[:P]

By the way, that's why the light bulb instead of a simple ceramic resistor. The light bulb is designed to deal with the heat better. 15 watt or even a 7.5 watt might do the trick. Its really the same as running lighted cars, you are just adding load. If you need smaller values, try Christmas tree bulbs (the larger screw base type).

[brianel027]

God Big_Boy, do great minds think alike or what?
Zach, yes when I used to sell K-Line train sets (and I knew that little basic transformer) I knew just where to drill a small hole in it. Then I would put in a nylon screw that prevented the kids from running full tilt. The parents could remove it when they saw fit. The other idea is just as Big_Boy said... I used to keep on hand some L-shaped mounts that I would sell to the parents. They could mount the transformer with this piece and make the adjustment to how fast the trains would run, then tighten it up.

There are a couple other things too. You could keep your eyes open for one of those small HO power packs. Very typically they're made by Tyco and are black with an orange or red folding throttle. These things don't have much amperage, but since you're running a single can motored engine with one headlight, this would probably work.
The ultimate transformer I like to recommend to folks is the Lionel 1033 because it has two voltage settings to the track (A-U 6-18 volts and B-U 0-11 volts). That B-U setting would be the charmer for your needs.
As far as a simple circuit to drop the power, other than putting more lighted cars on the track or lights to buildings running off the track, some have used a ceramic resistor to drop the power. This comes with pros and cons. There are some who don't recommend doing this. The resistor will get hot after a short while and needs to mounted where the kids won't touch it, and where there is space between the resistor and the board. This may have been what you read about since it is an old idea.
Another idea if you are using 027 track and are building a layout is to bank the curves. In other words, raise the track on the outside of the curve. This can be easily done using small wood risers (popsicle sticks, small pieces of basewood or hardwood) on the outside of each metal tie. I've done this on a couple of layouts I've helped build for kids and it does help.

[Big_Boy_4005]

The easiest solution would be to physically limit how far the handle on the transformer moves. In my younger days I was a member of a group that operated a full sized 1909 vintage streetcar. The controller had 8 notches, but a hole had been drilled and a peg inserted to prevent anyone from ever going above notch 5.

You wouldn't have to drill a hole in the transformer, but mount it onto a board and fashion a block to limit the movement, by anchoring it to the board as well.

Another solution would be electrical. By adding resistance the train could be slowed. A light bulb connected in parallel with the track would work, but I'm not sure what size bulb to tell you to use. It may be as simple as a low wattage household type. Actually in the early days of electric trains, a number of bulbs were hooked up in this way and screwed in and out to form a crude throttle.

[Anonymous]

Hi B,

It's a conventional 0-27 guage steamer from the early 90's. Nothing fancy - smoke and the sound it makes going over the track. Plain MTH Z750 transformer. Thanks for any help.

ZZZ

[Anonymous]

If you run DCC you program the speed limit into the motor

Simple. =)

[brianel027]

Z-Z-Z, I don't know what article you are referring to, but I may be able to help. What kind of train do you have? A brand new recently made one or an older one? What kind of transformer do you have? Or maybe you can tell me the mfger. of the set and the name of the set?

[Anonymous]

Hello,

Over the years I have seen in toy train mags or the Riddle Books a simple electronic circut to put an upper limit on the speed of conventional engines. Now that I need this type of device (children 3, 6, 9) I can't find it anymore. Can anyone help?

Thanks