PW horn Troubleshooting

[stubbsO]

Getting the trains out for the holidays and checking things out, some of my locos horns don't work. I have a new batt in them and when I turn them over they won't blow. Even checking on the track w/transformer is the same. All wires are connected and all looks good, is the relay toast or could something else be wrong? They used to work fine! What's a good test, troubleshoot, etc, to find the problem and fix as my book doesn't cover horns? Thanks

[Jumijo]

 

All the relays going bad at once seems like mighty steep odds. Or is it only one horn not working? Make sure the battery is making good contact with the battery compartment door by tightening the screw well. Make sure the battery is in the right way. Give the loco enough volts to make the horn work. These are just the first 3 steps I'd suggest.  

 

[Anonymous]

stubbsO,

             Take the body off the loco and remove the mounting screw(s) from the horn  Don't disconnect the wire for the horn.  Install a fresh battery in the loco and use a wire to connect the metal case of the horn to a good chasis ground(the eunit frame is good for this).  Look at the bottom of the horn case to find a machine screw with a lock nut on it.  Loosen the nut.  Then, hold the realy contacts closed and slowly turn the screw in both directions until you get  the desired sound from the horn.  Tighten the lock nut down when you have it sounding the way you want.  Repro horns are available if your horn is still inoperable after this adjustment.  Whatever you do, DO NOT try to take the horn apart. They can't withstand disassembly.  I've been there, done that.  

 

[Jumijo]

 

Jimbo,

I've been meaning to adjust the sound of my 2343's horn. It sounds a little high to me. (I used to use that line a lot with umpires when I was playing baseball) Thanks for the tuning tip. I saw that once in a Jim Barrett video and had forgotten about it.

Jim 

[sir james I]

If the relay is closing, but no sound carefully close the points on a file card and rub the points clean.Do  not use sand paper. that should clean the points and many times that is the problem.If you listen close and just hear a burp then you are back to the horn itself.

[stubbsO]

UPDATE-I've done everything said so far and still the same. However, if I wire the horn directly to power it works. The points on the relay are closing and just get a blurbing sound. The batt is getting hot as well, so I'm swapping around batts. Also, the horn wire broke loose and touching contacts w/power, if I touch the contact that goes to the e-unit, the horn blows. I just don't get it!!! Any other ideas? Thanks

[Anonymous]

stubbsO,

             Touching the horn lead to track voltage will fry the coil.  The coil is designed for 1.5VDC from the battery.   Check with Jeff K. (www.ttender.com) for a repro horn.

[stubbsO]

stubbsO,

             Touching the horn lead to track voltage will fry the coil.  The coil is designed for 1.5VDC from the battery.   Check with Jeff K. (www.ttender.com) for a repro horn.

I think you missed the point! Take the horn by itsef with lead contact to the wire and horn body, it blows. Even with horn disconnected and testing relay, relay works.

[Anonymous]

Check to be sure there is not continuity between the battery bracket and the loco frame.  If there is, insulate the battery bracket where it contacts the frame.  Be sure the relay points are making contact when the relay is activated. 

[stubbsO]

I got the the both of them done and still no dice. Maybe it just isn't suppose to work?

[USNRol]

stubbsO,

             Take the body off the loco and remove the mounting screw(s) from the horn  Don't disconnect the wire for the horn.  Install a fresh battery in the loco and use a wire to connect the metal case of the horn to a good chasis ground(the eunit frame is good for this).  Look at the bottom of the horn case to find a machine screw with a lock nut on it.  Loosen the nut.  Then, hold the relay contacts closed and slowly turn the screw in both directions until you get  the desired sound from the horn.  Tighten the lock nut down when you have it sounding the way you want.  Repro horns are available if your horn is still inoperable after this adjustment.  Whatever you do, DO NOT try to take the horn apart. They can't withstand disassembly.  I've been there, done that.  

This adjustment should be able to get the horn to sound...If not, horn's bad.  Careful to adjust this screw very carefully...very small adjustments make big differences in sound.  You mentioned your battery gets hot...that sounds like a wiring problem to me.  The load from the horn should not make the battery hot, if nothing is wrong.  If the horn blurbs quickly (and then stops sounding) when the relay throws then you either have dirty relay contacts or still need to adjust the horn pitch screw some more.  I find that higher horn pitch settings (rightie tightie?)will usually be the first you hear when adjusting.  Lower pitches are harder to get started but if you do get them started the horn will sound more reliably at lower pitches.  Basically, I adjust the screw for the lowest pitch that will reliably sound starting at the high pitch end working down.

Roland 

[RockIsland52]

Boy is this a timely thread.  There are probably a lot of us (myself included) that especially at this time of year are pulling out of storage something we haven't run in a while and are discovering that the horn isn't working.  Thanks for all the advice.

Jack

[USNRol]

 

January Issue of CTT has great article on how to T-shoot/fix a faulty PW horn relay.

Roland

[MojavenSF]

I'm having a similar issue with the 2243 F3 is restoring.  In my case the whistle/horn relay is not closing.  At some point in this locomotive's 50+ years it looks like some rewiring has taken place.  Can anybody post or direct us to a good wiring diagram for how to wire the relay?

[lionelsoni]

The diagram in the Lionel service manual is wrong.

The entire bracket that the relay is mounted on and which holds the D cell is insulated from the locomotive frame.  There should be a ring lug on the screw which holds that bracket to the frame, wired to the bottom end of the outer terminal strip, whose upper end should be wired to one end of the relay coil.  The other end of the relay coil should be wired to the bottom of the second terminal strip.  The top end of that strip should be wired directly to the pickup assembly and to a terminal of the e-unit.

The top of the third terminal strip should be wired to the horn itself.  The bottom of that strip is the fixed contact of the relay.  The frame of the horn should be attached to the locomotive frame.

[Glacier Bear]

Hi Jim, found this old thread from 2007 on the everlasting Lionel Horn issue.  I've got everytning hooked up right...I think....on my 2333.  The battery is getting warm just sitting there which leads me to believe there is a short.  The horn relay is engaging when I hit the horn lever on my KW but no horn sound.  Horn works fine with battery test.  KW horn lever works on other trains.  I 'remade' a battery gasket out of thick spiral notebook carboard to insure no contact to frame.  Solder lug screw that goes from battery frame to relay has the 'fibre' washer between the battery plate and solder lug.  Any ides from here on as I'm mystified.  Have switched up some other horn relay's and the same situation prevail's with battery being warm.  I can can only surmise that my short idea, which makes battery warm, is the problem.

 

GB

[Glacier Bear]

Well I got this one fixed several hours after my post.  I'm learning alot this week about 'fibre' washers.  I compared the 2333 to my Texas Special and noticed that I had only 1 fibre wahser under the battery hold down screws.  I ordered a set of 30 fibre washers from Ebay last night and as a temporary, made one out of a piece of note pad cardboard.  My Santa Fe 2333 is now running again with a horn and some great lessons learned.

Mark(GB)