The CW-80 "ramps up" at startup, aka nothing happens for about 1-2 seconds then the voltage clims rapidly. There is also a slight delay on backoff (aka as you throttle down). If you have another power supply, test the loco with it. It takes a little getting used to.
I seriously doubt there is a problem with the loco. BTW, a bad reverse unit will either not cycle at all or get stuck (aka train won't move or only moves in one direction).
DaylightFan wrote:I got my HE set in yesterday and was so excited to run it. I've been worried with everyone elses problems with the set that mine would have a pickup coming off or problems with one of the trucks or something. Everything looked okay BUT when I put it on the track and power there's a problem.At first I power it up and it wont go...then all of the sudden the train takes off! I slowed and cycled into neutral and gave it about half power and then it took off again! So, I guess my reverse unit is bad? What do you guys think? What should I do? I really don't want to spend money shipping this thing off for service. :(
I have a Lionel FT diesel that does the same thing. What I do is power up to about 5-7 volts and wait for the lights to come on in the the locomotive. Then throttle up slowly from there and it starts off nice and slow and runs fine.
Your locomotive is taking off because you are throttling it up to 1/2 full power. The CW80 ramps up slower than other transformers as others have said.
As for the reversing "problem", try reversing the locomotive with the direction button instead of powering down.
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Roger, try doing what I recommended and see if there is any difference. My FT does the same thing with our MRC PPD.
chuck wrote:The CW-80 "ramps up" at startup, aka nothing happens for about 1-2 seconds then the voltage clims rapidly. There is also a slight delay on backoff (aka as you throttle down).
The CW-80 "ramps up" at startup, aka nothing happens for about 1-2 seconds then the voltage clims rapidly. There is also a slight delay on backoff (aka as you throttle down).
Jumijo wrote:...The CW80 ramps up slower than other transformers as others have said.
...The CW80 ramps up slower than other transformers as others have said.
The CW-80 is not the culprit here. It does not "ramp up"(or down) as described in the manual - this is wrong. The "ramp up" feature only works when the direction button is used - otherwise the voltage comes up as fast as the handle is moved.
The likely issue is that the loco is probably not broken in yet, and maybe not even lubed well, trying to turn those big drivers.
Rob
ADCX Rob wrote: chuck wrote:The CW-80 "ramps up" at startup, aka nothing happens for about 1-2 seconds then the voltage clims rapidly. There is also a slight delay on backoff (aka as you throttle down). Jumijo wrote:...The CW80 ramps up slower than other transformers as others have said. The CW-80 is not the culprit here. It does not "ramp up"(or down) as described in the manual - this is wrong. The "ramp up" feature only works when the direction button is used - otherwise the voltage comes up as fast as the handle is moved.The likely issue is that the loco is probably not broken in yet, and maybe not even lubed well, trying to turn those big drivers.Rob
I should have been more specific and mentioned the direction button. Or did I? As I stated earlier, my FT and also my new scale F3 do the same thing with our MRC PPD. It's the locomotives. Both are well lubed and broken in. Do as I suggested with the throttle and you will see a difference.
Lubing a new locomotive is always a smart idea. Too many people neglect to do it. But it's crucial.
I love it. There's a similar question over on the other forum, only with the usual insult (all too common on that forum), along the lines of that it's a "cheapie" ready to run set.
I wonder if that makes high end trains with their many well-documented problems "cheapie's?" Or would that make the Legacy system a "cheapie" system along with the new Big Boy because they are having problems. And I am being a little sarcastic here.
Folks complain (like with the starter K-Line locos) if they take off like jack-rabbits, and then if they don't, something is wrong with them. As was wondered on the other fourm, I wonder if folks are bothering to read the instructions first.
And if folks paid attention over here, I have written several times about how to easily fix the couplers on these kinds of cars.
Maybe next time I see a thread about problems on a $1,000 train loco, I should tell the person that's what they get for buying a "cheapie" high end loco. Next time they'll learn and buy the $2,000 loco. Again, sarcasm.
As they say, you get the problems you pay for. Maybe that's why my trains run so flawlessly and NEVER need factory service... I don't pay much for them. But I don't demand too much from them either. If I need to see trains that run, look and smell like real trains, I'll go over to the train tracks and wait for one to come by.
brianel, Agent 027
"Praise the Lord. I may not have everything I desire, but the Lord has come through for what I need."
"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks
Charter Member- Tardis Train Crew (TTC) - Detroit3railers- Detroit Historical society Glancy Modular trains- Charter member BTTS
My Polar Express (Berk) does this same thing on cold starts (that is: starts where power has been removed from the loco for 20-30 seconds or more) When first applying power, no matter how much voltage you apply nothing happens then, after about 4-5 seconds the track volts are instantly applied to the motor and off she goes. Thereafter cycling track power cycles the electronic E-unit as one would expect. My advice is to take Jim's. (Jumijo) when first applying power just put 5 or 6 volts on and when the power gets applied the loco may move a tiny bit (That's how I do it) and then you can smoothly advance throttle for a nice prototypical acceleration. I doubt anything is wrong...I would like to hear the technical explanation for the initial delay though.
Roland
oh yea, it's got nothing to do with the CW-80...my PE does it no matter what transformer I use.
DaylightFan wrote:So back to the origional topic... does this happen to other peoples Hogwarts Express?
Your question was already answered. Here and on OGR. You're not listening. Just because it doesn't work the way YOU think it's supposed to doesn't mean there is something wrong with it.
Roland,
I've tried to tell this guy...I have several Lionel trains that do this. They all run as they are intended to. He just doesn't want to hear it. So let him watch his train take off like a rabbit at 1/2 full throttle. When he gets sick of that, he can take it to a repair shop, where it will stay for weeks, and it will come back the same as he brought it in - working as it was designed to.
Put the loco on a about 6 feet of FastTrack with a TPC-300 and 180 Power House and used a WaveTek digital multimeter to monitor the track voltage. Loco starts to move around 3-3.5 volts in forward, about 3.6 in reverse. It does not have cruise control and will "lurch" on start up but it is not a jack rabbit start. Once it starts moving I was able to back down the voltage and get it to really creep along. I am guessing that most of the toy train transformers out there can't start at this low a voltage or have the fine control a TPC has (man I love the way these work) and that is what is contributing to the fast starts.
I really, really like this set. The more I get to play with it, the better I like it.
Jim (Jumijo)
If you think it's frustrating here, try the other forum.
All CW-80's that I have experience with have a low throttle "no go" range. The manuals indicate that this is so that with careful throttle manipulation one can stop the train at a passenger station (or wherever) and then have it go forward again without cycling the electronic E-unit. So there are low end throttle settings that will not move the loco, and in some sense one has to get past that before the train rolls. You could also do this with the "Reverse" On-Off switch in the Off position (where the E-unit doesn't cycle at all) but Lionel provides this other option. All I'm saying here is that "unusual" things do happen at low throttle and/or in the startup sequence.
After the loco has been powered off for some period of time, the E-unit re-sets to the "Forward" mode. After this "dormant" period, which I haven't measured, the loco will always come up in forward, regardless of where it was in the Forward-Neutral-Reverse cycle when you powered down. (I would prefer that it came up in neutral and then went into forward, but that's not the way it works. As I recall, one of my Williams locos does the same thing, but they give you the option of rewiring it so it comes up it neutral. Voids the warranty though.)
A little experience with the Hogwarts set should tell you where to set the throttle for a slow but controlled start. If you set the throttle too high, it will indeed sit there for a couple of moments, and then take off. I found that a little lubrication provided greater control. (Words to live by. )
You can often get an idea of what's going on by removing the train and any accessories with substantial mechanical inertia, and simply leave a passenger car on the track. (Be certain that the bulbs can take a full 18 volts.)
Watch the lamps as you manipulate the throttle handle. Then set the throttle as high as the bulbs will survive and try the direction buttons. Watch the lights brighten and dim. The lights provide a low-load, low-inertia test of what the transformer is doing. I think you will find that when using the throttle handle, the voltage increases as fast as you can move the handle, but when using the direction buttons you will notice the "ramp-up" delay. (I am indebted to "ADCX Rob" for suggesting this technique several months ago.) It should be clear what the transformer is doing, even if not so clear about the locomotive.
Now one for youse giz. I currently have two postwar ZW's, one KW, two 1033's, two older (pre-revision) CW-80's, and the revised CW-80 that came with the Hogwarts set. All of these transformers will blow every whistle I have* but only the revised CW-80 will blow the Hogwarts Whistle. Has anybody else experienced that?
*Many combinations of air whistles, electronic whistles, postwar, modern, standard electro-mechanical relays, modern diodes, old rectifier disks, Williams, MTH, Lionel -- you name it. The new revised CW-80 blows them all, but it's the only transformer that will blow the Hogwarts whistle. Can you believe that?
My Hogwarts seems to have a slight delay at start up also.
Bfskinner - The whistle in mine works fine with a Z4000, havent tried it with my KW yet.
Tim
DaylightFan wrote:At first I power it up and it wont go...then all of the sudden the train takes off! I slowed and cycled into neutral and gave it about half power and then it took off again! So, I guess my reverse unit is bad?
My uncle has a CW-80 that came with the Polar Express set and has experienced some of the problems you have, though he doesn't notice it. Anyway the CW-80's direction button has a "delay" on it so the the power up/down is gradual. Also, your reverse unit isn't bad. As said earlier the engine would barely do any movement if that was the case. The Lionel MoW Rail Bonder experiences the delayed start you speak of. With any transformer (that I'm aware of) it'll move only after a few seconds of giving power to the track it's on. I think it's the way the motor/E-unit was designed, but that I'm not sure about. Don't worry to much though. Like the others here have said, just break it in and it'll run fine.
I am running mine off a MTH 100 W transformer and have the same start up only the first time.
IMO it is normal and the design of the E unit. I have about 22 hours on the set .
IMO its almost like there ia a capacitor (BCR) that charges when the track power is first applied. After a few seconds the electronic E unit powers up and works ???
Anyone else notice the wheels are magnetized?
Pretty simple answer guys this is the way it works. There is a two to four second delay. Even my two brand new conventional Lionel disel engines start the same way.
Why they do this I can't answer you would have to ask Lionel. At first it annoyed me but later I got use to the start up. You will notice if you just bring it to full power it will set for the 2-4 seconds then take off at full power. I just bring it up to a slow power setting then adjust when it starts rolling.
I suspect a few people will take this change as an issue to bash Lionel, others will try to blame things from the transformer to what ever. The simple fat is there is n othing wrong with you HE engine. You may not like the delay but oer time you will never notice it.
It a good fun runner and great looking too for most people. If you try to compare this to a top end set you need a life. Some have and I question there reasons.
Renovo,
Agreed. Mine (for my granddaughter, actually) runs smooth as glass. I love it! But some folks have questions, and there's no doubt that it takes a little getting used to.
I too believe that this is normal for the transformer. I ran mine the other day for an hour and let the kids run it too, using the direction button and using the throttle to cycle. It takes a lot of power to get it running and to push this locomotive through the O36 curves, I guess because of the drivers? So you have to push the power up and when it starts moving ease off a little to make it right. I have a MTH Z1000 also, so will try that next time and let you know if I have different results.
Do you have a different locomotive you could test on the same track with the same transformer? That might give you an idea...
RIP Chewy - best dog I ever had.
Hi Brutus....
Guess you didn't see my reply with the MTH Z1000 ???
Nothing against you however most of the time I feel invisible on this board ??
Here it is again, Thanks ........
"
Anyone else notice the wheels are magnetized?"
njal wrote:Hi Brutus....Nothing against you however most of the time I feel invisible on this board ??
I'm sorry...did you say something?
njal wrote: Hi Brutus.... Guess you didn't see my reply with the MTH Z1000 ???Nothing against you however most of the time I feel invisible on this board ??Here it is again, Thanks ........"I am running mine off a MTH 100 W transformer and have the same start up only the first time. IMO it is normal and the design of the E unit. I have about 22 hours on the set .IMO its almost like there ia a capacitor (BCR) that charges when the track power is first applied. After a few seconds the electronic E unit powers up and works ???Anyone else notice the wheels are magnetized?"
AL : you may be feeling invisible because a lot of the posters aren't posting any more. Mostly different people have pushed the older ones out. Mainly because CTT is letting some real wise guys post whatever they want & doing away with the way of old friendly family posts or helping anyone with a problem without the smart allik stuff . The welcoming is all gone now to new inquirers.
I'm really on other forums now.
njal,
From my point of view you are not invisible, and neither is njal2 on the other forum. I assume that's you too.
Your suggestion that some sort of capacitor needs to be charged up before the Hogwarts e-unit "fires" is interesting, but I have no idea how to confirm it; or was it just a simile and not intended to be taken literally? Either way, that is certainly what it "looks like."
I did check out the wheels on my Hogwarts loco, but did not find any evidence of magnetism. Is it possible that your screwdriver has a slight magnetic pull to it?
njal wrote:...most of the time I feel invisible on this board ??
...most of the time I feel invisible on this board ??
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