2 or 3 Position Reverse, Does It Still Matter ?

[ADCX Rob]

I too use a 8142 and it is a real work-horse, it smokes great, and has the Mighty Sound of Steam (some rare ones have a whislte too).

How difficult is it to upgrade the engine to have a 3 position reverse?, and would the same type of upgrade be possible with PW 2 position reverse units?

Ken

It should be easy - the electrical part is very easy.  The rest is finding a 3 Position Reverse unit configured to fit in the loco with the proper lever location.  I'll let you know of I figure out soon which part number is the most appropriate.  If you want to eliminate the E-unit lever, you can use just about any E-unit & mount a small on-off switch in a hidden area.

Rob 

Well I went through my service manuals & parts bins and found that due to the location of the E-unit lever slot on the 8142, the only 3 position E-unit that will fit is the 700-300 with no lever.  It fit like a glove, and just barely.

The 700-300 is hard to come by, but the good news is that you can make one yourself by removing the lever & it's terminal board and wiring in a hidden on-off switch somewhere convenient.

Now the decision to wire in just one of the field coils or both in series.

Rob 

[bfskinner]

Replacing electro-mechanical E-units with electronic three-position ones has worked for me for a number of reasons. It's one of my few concessions to modernity.

[ADCX Rob]

I too use a 8142 and it is a real work-horse, it smokes great, and has the Mighty Sound of Steam (some rare ones have a whislte too).

How difficult is it to upgrade the engine to have a 3 position reverse?, and would the same type of upgrade be possible with PW 2 position reverse units?

Ken

It should be easy - the electrical part is very easy.  The rest is finding a 3 Position Reverse unit configured to fit in the loco with the proper lever location.  I'll let you know of I figure out soon which part number is the most appropriate.  If you want to eliminate the E-unit lever, you can use just about any E-unit & mount a small on-off switch in a hidden area.

Rob 

[Jumijo]

 

I think it matters whether a 2 or 3 position e-unit is used. A 3 position unit offers more operating possibilities, like parking a train in neutral  while using an operating car. The track power must be on for cars like the milk cars, log dumpers, etc. A little hard to do when the train only goes forward or backward. 

[lionelsoni]

A 3-position electromechanical e-unit can be adapted to control universal motors, whether having single or double field windings, and DC motors.  Likewise, a reversing unit intended for DC motors can be adapted to control a universal motor, if it has an adequate current rating.

[krapug1]

I'm not aware MPC really ever did a re-issue of the 6 wheel-drive 2037/2029 type in die cast until into the can-motored LTI era.  The 4-4-2 locos with a similar casting & 2 Position Reverse were very popular however.  Good runners, too, I have 1 8142 slated for a 3 Position Reverse soon.

There is little or no cost savings today to furnish a solid-state Reverse unit that does not have F-N-R.

Rob 

The 8142, and others that MPC made (like the engines that headed up the early MPC passenger sets used the body mold of the PW 2037 type), but MPC used a 4-4-2 wheel arng. and equipped them all with the 2 position reverse.

I too use a 8142 and it is a real work-horse, it smokes great, and has the Mighty Sound of Steam (some rare ones have a whislte too).

How difficult is it to upgrade the engine to have a 3 position reverse?, and would the same type of upgrade be possible with PW 2 position reverse units?

Ken

[ADCX Rob]

Before MPC, there were only 2 Position Reverse or hard wired forward locos below the 3 position reverse in the "O" Gauge range.  That little hand switch(pt. # 8040-7) was an MPC "innovation" when they were too cheap to even go with the basic 101-1 2 Position Reverse unit.

Any  2 Position Reverse(or manual) loco I want to have 3 Position Reverse gets it in the shop.

I'm not aware MPC really ever did a re-issue of the 6 wheel-drive 2037/2029 type in die cast until into the can-motored LTI era.  The 4-4-2 locos with a similar casting & 2 Position Reverse were very popular however.  Good runners, too, I have 1 8142 slated for a 3 Position Reverse soon.

There is little or no cost savings today to furnish a solid-state Reverse unit that does not have F-N-R.

Rob 

[krapug1]

Having started in this hobbby during the final year of the Lionel PW era, and the MPC era, one issue that would come up was the type of reverse units used during this time.

Aside from the top shelf items made in the 1960's, most engines came with a 2 position reverse (forward-reverse). This would include the 2029 steam engines and most of the Alco's. At this point many of the entry level engines had a manual reverse.

During the 70's MPC era, the "better" steamers used in starter sets, including the die cast versions all came with the 2 position reverse. In one of the books on Lionel MPC it was noted that the MPC re-ssue of the 2037/2029 type were durable engines, and good runners but the stuborn use of the 2 postion reverse limited their collector appeal.

and of course for the Marxists out there, a 2 position reverse was the only type Marx used (other than no reverse at all, or manual).

Today operating a larger permanent layout the type of reverse unit does not seem to matter at all.

Perhaps it has more impact on smaller temporary layouts, like around the Tree at Christmas.

and today for that matter it appears that only the 3 position reverse units are used.

Your Thoughts??

Ken