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My new TMCC won't do anything - please help [solved]

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Posted by laz 57 on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 7:14 PM

CHUCK,

  Good info for the beginers.  Thanks for posting it.

laz57

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Posted by chuck on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 9:14 AM

good source for interactive tutorials on how to use the TMCC equipment is the Coil Couplers Web site.

http://www.coilcouplers.com/tmc/tmc.html 

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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 8:39 AM

Bob, Glad to see you up and running and having fun with TMCC. Thumbs Up [tup] If you haven't done so already, I would suggest that you go to Lionel's web site and download all of their instruction manuals for TMCC, print them out and keep them for future use.  I have mine in a binder and every so often I refer to them for help, especially with the SC-2 units.

 

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. Smile, Wink & Grin

Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..

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Posted by SchemerBob on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 8:01 AM
 laz 57 wrote:

BOB,

   Any more info on this problem?  Did you get it figured out?

laz57

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. The reason I haven't responded is that I've been having a ball running trains...Big Smile [:D]

I cannot believe how easy it was to fix. The ONLY thing that was wrong, was that I didn't have a wire running from the transformer to the command base! Instead, I wired the regular U wire to the command base, and left it off of the transformer. The whole reason nothing responded was because there actually was no track power! The instructions were kind of cryptic, so I didn't quite understand the wiring part. Once I got this figured out, though, everything worked perfectly. It all makes sense now. Thanks to everyone who responded!

Long live the BNSF .... AND its paint scheme. SchemerBob
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Posted by chuck on Wednesday, November 7, 2007 5:19 AM
The out of order power up would apply if he didn't have control under TMCC but he says there isn't even power to the track.  This would only happen if he had a TPC or a PowerMaster in between the power supply/transfomer and the track and they weren't addressed/enabled.  EIther he doesn't have a Command Base or there is something really wrong with the way he has it hooked up.
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Posted by dbaker48 on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 11:32 PM

With everything else that has been tried, I fell onto this tonight.  I was relocating all the Command Control, Xfrmr, Ckt Bkr boxes, and my DCS units tonight.

I had it all plugged in turned the system on and it didn't do anything!

What my problem was.....Dunce [D)]Banged Head [banghead]

Simple matter of the Command Control, NOT coming on BEFORE power being applied.

Put the AC adapater on a seperate surge protector, which is always on, then the transformer connected to a second surge protector which is plugged into the first one.  (Same as the Command Control)  Also make sure the transformer is turned up to 18v before power is applied.

Simple but mayyybeee. 

Don

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Posted by laz 57 on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 7:11 PM

BOB,

   Any more info on this problem?  Did you get it figured out?

laz57

  There's a race of men that don't fit in, A race that can't stay still; Robert Service. TCA 03-55991
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Posted by laz 57 on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 8:31 AM

Exactly what IU thought, All steps were taken to figure this out and nothing is happening.  Maybe taking it back and getting another unit makes the most sense.

laz57

  There's a race of men that don't fit in, A race that can't stay still; Robert Service. TCA 03-55991
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Posted by sir james I on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 7:56 AM
It was just a thought as every type of step by step combo has been listed. there has to be something else missing here. Maybe a defect in the board or something.

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Posted by chuck on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 7:40 AM

 sir james I wrote:
He said it ran conv. this might be the dumbest question on this post but, is he sure it is a TMCC engine? since it does not respond at all.

Last time I saw something like this was at the local hobby shop.  I got a call regarding a user with a TMCC problem.  Same type of scenario.  After two phone calls I drove down to the shop.  The problem was that the person had purchased a PowerMaster, not a Command Base (They bought the loco at the local shop but everything else (CAB-1 and the "Command Base") was E-Bay/train show).  The CAB-1 can talk to a Command Base, blinking LED's and all.  Of course you have to address the PowerMaster as a TR and advance the throttle to get anything to work/move and it is definietly not in command mode.  I brought over my Command Base to verify that everything was OK. 

There are rare cases were a Command Base gets out of "tune" and the internal potentiometers need adjusting to allow the loco's and the CB to talk to each other.  This is not trivial and really should only be attempted if you know what you are doing because the Command Base can go from marginal to hosed very easily.

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Posted by sir james I on Tuesday, November 6, 2007 7:31 AM
He said it ran conv. this might be the dumbest question on this post but, is he sure it is a TMCC engine? since it does not respond at all.

"IT's GOOD TO BE THE KING",by Mel Brooks 

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Posted by chuck on Monday, November 5, 2007 9:00 PM
 bfskinner wrote:

chuck,

Might it help if Bob could post a drawing of his wiring scheme?

 

Yes, at this point in time I'm not sure what else to try/recommend 

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Posted by bfskinner on Monday, November 5, 2007 8:57 PM

chuck,

Might it help if Bob could post a drawing of his wiring scheme?

bf
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Posted by chuck on Monday, November 5, 2007 8:16 PM
It runs in CONVENTIONAL.  I'm not sure what/how he's hooking the TMCC equipment up, but I suspect he's doing something that cuts track power.  This is why I outlined the procedure in the earlier post, isolate the TMCC equipment from the power and then try to add Commnad base back in afterwards.
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Posted by laz 57 on Monday, November 5, 2007 8:05 PM

 SchemerBob wrote:
My CW-80 came in the Norfolk Southern Black Diamond Freight set of 2005. I believe that was before the new CW-80's came out (?) although I did notice that this one's fan is much quieter than my other CW-80 which came in my Polar Express set. I don't expect the transformer to be the problem because it seems to run conventional trains okay.

CHUCK he said he's got power to the track, stated in the last sentence.  Its running conventional trains.  Maybe his engine isn't sitting on the track right or one of the pickups are shorting out?

laz57

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Posted by chuck on Monday, November 5, 2007 7:50 PM
He needs to get power to the track first.  Until this is resolved, he can't do anything, including reprograming a loco to factory defaults.
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Posted by laz 57 on Monday, November 5, 2007 7:46 PM
 chuck wrote:

Disconnect the command base antenna wire and unplug the power pack for it. 

Test one of your loco's and see if it is currently working in conventional mode. 

If so, POWER DOWN THE CW 80, then pick up the engine, turn it over, make sure the run/program switch is in run position. 

Put it back on the track.

Plug the Command base back in.

Take the wire going from the antenna post on the command base and conect it to one of the outside rails, use an aligator clip or connect it via a lock on.  DO NOT ATTACH IT TO THE CW 80.

Begin advancing the throttle on the CW.  The headlights on the loco should come on and be steady.  If they blink rapidly, there is a signal problem.

Assuming they came up, Hit ENG 1 and then hit the horn/whistle button.  The engine should respond.  If it does, you can try turning the CAB-1 wheel and see if it moves. If you get lights but no response to the horn or throttle, try different ENG addresses in the event you mave changed the ID.

 

CHUCK,  maybe he might have to reprogram engine back to factory defalt?  Just throwing that out there?

laz57

  There's a race of men that don't fit in, A race that can't stay still; Robert Service. TCA 03-55991
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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, November 5, 2007 7:10 PM
 bfskinner wrote:

...punster "ADCX Rob" of no fixed address. Smile [:)]

I'm voting in the Town of Hopewell elections tomorrow... I hope the election board believes I live in my house... in the town... of Hopewell, NY...

Rob 

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Posted by chuck on Monday, November 5, 2007 6:34 PM

Disconnect the command base antenna wire and unplug the power pack for it. 

Test one of your loco's and see if it is currently working in conventional mode. 

If so, POWER DOWN THE CW 80, then pick up the engine, turn it over, make sure the run/program switch is in run position. 

Put it back on the track.

Plug the Command base back in.

Take the wire going from the antenna post on the command base and conect it to one of the outside rails, use an aligator clip or connect it via a lock on.  DO NOT ATTACH IT TO THE CW 80.

Begin advancing the throttle on the CW.  The headlights on the loco should come on and be steady.  If they blink rapidly, there is a signal problem.

Assuming they came up, Hit ENG 1 and then hit the horn/whistle button.  The engine should respond.  If it does, you can try turning the CAB-1 wheel and see if it moves. If you get lights but no response to the horn or throttle, try different ENG addresses in the event you mave changed the ID.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, November 5, 2007 5:53 PM

 magicman710 wrote:
Are you shure that the eng # was 1? In my set the engnine number was different, it said the correct one in the manual.  Does your engine have a program switch on the bottom? When you program a engine for another # it must be set to the program setting..

He's got to get power to the track 1st... his caboose lights don't even come on.

Rob 

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Posted by magicman710 on Monday, November 5, 2007 5:48 PM
Are you shure that the eng # was 1? In my set the engnine number was different, it said the correct one in the manual.  Does your engine have a program switch on the bottom? When you program a engine for another # it must be set to the program setting..

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Posted by SchemerBob on Monday, November 5, 2007 4:49 PM

The batteries in the remote are brand-new, bought the day I got the TMCC set.

Long live the BNSF .... AND its paint scheme. SchemerBob
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Posted by laz 57 on Monday, November 5, 2007 4:25 PM

BOB,

  I have the same set and had NO problems with my CW.  I'm stumped on your situation.  Did you try new batteries?  Just a thought? 

laz57

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Posted by SchemerBob on Monday, November 5, 2007 4:18 PM
My CW-80 came in the Norfolk Southern Black Diamond Freight set of 2005. I believe that was before the new CW-80's came out (?) although I did notice that this one's fan is much quieter than my other CW-80 which came in my Polar Express set. I don't expect the transformer to be the problem because it seems to run conventional trains okay.
Long live the BNSF .... AND its paint scheme. SchemerBob
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Posted by bfskinner on Monday, November 5, 2007 3:30 PM

ADCX Rob,

You are correct, except that I didn't forget it, I just didn't write it again. My posts tend to be quite long as it is, and I have discussed it repeatedly.

Specifically, on pp.5-6 pp. 4-5 of the CW80 manual(s), the text and diagram contradict each other. Also the section on programming the voltage to the accessory posts (B and U) fails to mention that you really need to have the accessory connected so that you can observe it while doing the voltage adjustment. I have posted these observations many times in the past. There are others of which I am aware. What they seem to have in common is the well-known (but not necessarily understood) "common ground" issue.

Late last week I got a Hogwarts set for my granddaughter, and while checking it out noticed that its manual seems to have corrected the second of the two problems. However, the last time I looked up the actual CW80 Owner's Manual(s)* online, they were still not corrected, despite the fact that I actually wrote Jerry Calabrese about it several months ago. You'd think that with all the influence I have on this forum he would sit up straight and pay attention, wouldn't you? Smile [:)]

*Why are there still two for the old version, and none for the revised one?

Edited 11/06/07 to correct reference to page numbers in second paragraph.

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Posted by bfskinner on Monday, November 5, 2007 3:10 PM

csxt30,

Thank you for your support.

There are folks with all levels of experience on this forum, and their contributions are all valuable. Frequently the questions contribute more to the total knowledge base than some of the answers,* but I see everyone's post as useful and often entertaining.

On several occasions I have admitted that I know nothing about TMCC nor most of the rest of the current alphabet-soup acronyms; so I'm merely trying to help in any way I can. Can you say the same?

 

*It might be called "heuristic" value. Short of a lucky guess or an extremely well-educated  response, I think it unwise to tackle problems with a CW80-based system until it is clear what version of the CW80 one is referencing, and that it is working properly. Long experience on this and other forums has led me to this conclusion. Your experience may vary. I'm sorry if your feelings got hurt. It was not intentional.

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Posted by ADCX Rob on Monday, November 5, 2007 2:52 PM
 bfskinner wrote:

6. If something has gone awry in the steps above, read your Owner's Manual. If you haven't got one, you can read any of dozens of them online at the Lionel web site, and even print them out if you'd like. (This should have been the first instruction on the list, but almost nobody seems to "buy it" until something goes wrong -- and many not even then. Besides, while most are pretty good in most respects, some of the Lionel manuals contain glaring errors, omissions, and inconsistencies.)

But the one thing you forget to mention is that every available CW-80 manual so far has the worst errors.  Pictograms don't match the text and at least one feature is misdescribed.

For anyone checking this post for problems with a CW-80 transformer application, please post the date code, 4 or 5 characters stamped in white ink on the bottom of the base plate, with your query.

Rob 

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Posted by csxt30 on Monday, November 5, 2007 1:46 PM
 bfskinner wrote:

Folks,

If I have posted this once I have posted it a dozen times: in order to talk about a CW80 one absolutely MUST specify whether he has an old one or a new (REVISED) one. Revised CW80's have been on the market for well over a year now, but just because you obtained yours recently doesn't necessarily mean that you have a revised one. Old ones are still popping up on eBay and in sets, among other places.

When having trouble with TMCC or any other new-fangled electronic whiz-bang device, first find out and let the forum know what it will do, not simply what it won't. With CW80's in particular:

0. Make certain that your house current operates at 60 cycles-per-second, aka 60 Hertz. This is pretty much standard in the U.S., but many overseas homes are wired for 50 Hz. As stated clearly by Lionel, the CW80 of any vintage is not designed to run on other than 60 Hz current.

1. Leave your voltmeter in it's case;* but do use your ohmmeter to determine positively whether you have a revised CW80 or an old one.

2. When the CW80 is plugged into the wall with nothing attached to the outputs, does the green light come on and continue glowing steadily? Does the internal fan ramp up to speed? You may have to listen carefully with your ear close to the transformer.

3. If so, unnplug the CW80 from the wall, connect the output terminals to the track and plug it back in.

4. Does the above continue when the CW80 is connected to the track (with no other load) or does the green light begin blinking and/or the internal fuse blow  -- Heaven forbid?

5. Unplug the CW80 again, set the throttle handle to zero, put your loco on the track, and plug the transformer back into the house power once again.

6. Using the throttle handle only, will the locomotive, or the loco-and-tender if a "tethered unit" run?

4. Do the buttons for direction, bell and whistle/horn do exactly as expected? If the direction button doesn't function properly, make sure that the "reverse off" switch (if your loco is so equipped) is in the "on" position. Add a "resistive load" (lamp, illuminated caboose or passenger car, etc.) to the circuit and try again.

If everything is OK, begin adding a cars, one at a time, testing as you go, to ensure that everything remains OK.

5. If everything is copacetic, then (and only then) begin incorporating the fancy stuff, such as TMCC, etc.

6. If something has gone awry in the steps above, read your Owner's Manual. If you haven't got one, you can read any of dozens of them online at the Lionel web site, and even print them out if you'd like. (This should have been the first instruction on the list, but almost nobody seems to "buy it" until something goes wrong -- and many not even then. Besides, while most are pretty good in most respects, some of the Lionel manuals contain glaring errors, omissions, and inconsistencies.)

* Direct readings of the output voltages on the CW80 with no load on the device are meaningless -- you will likely see either zero or 19 volts. Even if read with a load on the device, such as between the center and outer rails and an illuminated train on the tracks, the readings will be significantly erroneous (although they will appear relatively sensible) unless corrected per a chart posted some time ago by "lionelsoni" (Bob Nelson) of this forum.

As far as TMCC and the fancy systems are concerned, the most consistently reliable info on this forum seems to come from "chuck" of Plymouth, MI, and punster "ADCX Rob" of no fixed address. Smile [:)]

Well BFThat was just about the most arrogant self centered reply I ever read here. Yes, Chuck & the others you mentioned are real experts but there are a lot of us little guys that know something too. Beleive me , I hit the abuse button for your posts.

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Posted by bfskinner on Monday, November 5, 2007 12:32 PM

Folks,

If I have posted this once I have posted it a dozen times: in order to talk about a CW80 one absolutely MUST specify whether he has an old one or a new (REVISED) one. Revised CW80's have been on the market for well over a year now, but just because you obtained yours recently doesn't necessarily mean that you have a revised one. Old ones are still popping up on eBay and in sets, among other places.

When having trouble with TMCC or any other new-fangled electronic whiz-bang device, first find out and let the forum know what it will do, not simply what it won't. With CW80's in particular:

0. Make certain that your house current operates at 60 cycles-per-second, aka 60 Hertz. This is pretty much standard in the U.S., but many overseas homes are wired for 50 Hz. As stated clearly by Lionel, the CW80 of any vintage is not designed to run on other than 60 Hz current.

1. Leave your voltmeter in it's case;* but do use your ohmmeter to determine positively whether you have a revised CW80 or an old one.

2. When the CW80 is plugged into the wall with nothing attached to the outputs, does the green light come on and continue glowing steadily? Does the internal fan ramp up to speed? You may have to listen carefully with your ear close to the transformer.

3. If so, unnplug the CW80 from the wall, connect the output terminals to the track and plug it back in.

4. Does the above continue when the CW80 is connected to the track (with no other load) or does the green light begin blinking and/or the internal fuse blow  -- Heaven forbid?

5. Unplug the CW80 again, set the throttle handle to zero, put your loco on the track, and plug the transformer back into the house power once again.

6. Using the throttle handle only, will the locomotive, or the loco-and-tender if a "tethered unit" run?

4. Do the buttons for direction, bell and whistle/horn do exactly as expected? If the direction button doesn't function properly, make sure that the "reverse off" switch (if your loco is so equipped) is in the "on" position. Add a "resistive load" (lamp, illuminated caboose or passenger car, etc.) to the circuit and try again.

If everything is OK, begin adding a cars, one at a time, testing as you go, to ensure that everything remains OK.

5. If everything is copacetic, then (and only then) begin incorporating the fancy stuff, such as TMCC, etc.

6. If something has gone awry in the steps above, read your Owner's Manual. If you haven't got one, you can read any of dozens of them online at the Lionel web site, and even print them out if you'd like. (This should have been the first instruction on the list, but almost nobody seems to "buy it" until something goes wrong -- and many not even then. Besides, while most are pretty good in most respects, some of the Lionel manuals contain glaring errors, omissions, and inconsistencies.)

* Direct readings of the output voltages on the CW80 with no load on the device are meaningless -- you will likely see either zero or 19 volts. Even if read with a load on the device, such as between the center and outer rails and an illuminated train on the tracks, the readings will be significantly erroneous (although they will appear relatively sensible) unless corrected per a chart posted some time ago by "lionelsoni" (Bob Nelson) of this forum.

As far as TMCC and the fancy systems are concerned, the most consistently reliable info on this forum seems to come from "chuck" of Plymouth, MI, and punster "ADCX Rob" of no fixed address. Smile [:)]

bf

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