Re-using O-Gauge, 3 rail flex track and other track/switch compatability issues.

[Anonymous]

I have inherited a large Lionel O-Gauge collection from my grandfather. I helped him build and wire a large layout (24' x 32' approx) as a boy ages 8-16. I am hoping to build a layout in my home with the available track after his old layout is dismantled. It is primarily Gar Graves flexable tinplate with some occasional minor rust and Gar Graves 0-72 switches with Lionel O-gauge uncoupling and 5-rail freight car operating tracks.

and NOW finally to my question(s)...
it's been almost 30 years since we built the table and as I recall we had some difficulty with track heights and derailing or pilot trucks popping off anytime the Lionel track was on or near a Gar Graves switch.

Should I consider switching the loinel operating track for the newer gar graves?

How well does gar graves work with used together with other manufacturers track or switches? (atlas, etc, etc..)

Does anyone have experience or issues with Re-Using flexable gar graves track if you need to "re-bend" it?

Thanks for your help!!

[Roger Bielen]

I haven't reused Gargraves but in doing my layout I had occasion to rebend a few sections. What I learned is to bend the Gargraves against a template, either curved or staight. Once it's straightened realiegn the ties and proceed.

Gargraves has adapter pins available to mate with most other track types. The overall height of the Gargraves is more akin to O-27 track, therefore you will need to shim it when connecting to "O". If the Lionel operating track is in working order and astetics don't matter go for it, it's a lot less expensive.

Don't forget to clean the track before putting it down, it's a lot easier. I've found GooGone and a non-metalic scrubbing pad do a good job.

If other questions come up don't hesitate to use the forum, we've all been through many of the problems new comers meet.

Enjoy.

[Anonymous]

as a follow up...

how well do the gar graves and atlas (or other manufacturers) operating tracks work compared to the lionel originals?
my grandfather was a believer in the lionel uncouplers and 5-rail operating tracks even though they caused us some headaches (read the first message in this thread) , but i think the table will look better with fewer track types and less shimming etc.

thanks again,
Tom W.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I have a lot of experience with used Gargraves track. I am reusing about 15 cases of it, about 750 pieces, but mine is mostly from 10 years ago. I do have some older pieces, from 20 years ago. The 20 year old sections are much harder to bend, and tend to kink more. Roger is right about using a template to help with the bending.

Actually, a number of "new" products have come along since you and your grandfather built the original layout. There are 2 switch manufacturers that make very nice switches, that look more like Gargraves track, than Gargraves switches do.

http://www.rossswitches.com/
http://curtishirail.ce.net/

I just noticed that Atlas has mating pins for Gargraves, and I know that the height between the two is pretty close. I don't have a lot of experience with the uncouplers, but I suspect that there are no real problems with either the Gargraves or the Atlas.

P.S. The thing about the Lionel uncoupling tracks that is nice is the controllers, and the fact that there really is no wiring required. I'm sure that if you choose one of the other brands they will come with instructions.

[brianel027]

Woody, keep in mind too that much has changed over the years with Lionel (and others). The older wheel sets on the pre-1970 cars had an axle with nubs on it: the wheels turned freely on the axle. Now the fast-angle wheel sets (developed by Lionel MPC in 1970) are the norm... so you don't have the inevitable wheel wobble that you did with the older wheel sets, which gets worse over time. As far as the operating tracks, the contact slide shoe has remained to this day a problem with some types of track. The contact slide shoes on the MTH Railking cars are the best out there. Last time I called MTH these were still not available as separate sale items, but maybe that has changed.
Also, Gargraves re-engineered their turnouts several years ago and made improvements. These newer swiches are superior to the older Gargraves ones.
As Big_Boy said, there are other brands like Curtis that are highly recommended by those who use them. But they also are expensive. It all depends on what types of engines you are running and how much money you have to spend on track. Probably some of the newer more prototypical scale steamers will operate more smoothly through better turnouts. Most of my engines are of the lesser expensive variety and they run just fine through 027 turnouts... though I do selectively add weight to engines and tension springs to front trucks on my K-Line FA Alcos, S2's and MP-15's. And I make adjustments to my postwar Lionel and MPC engines too.
Both train mags, CTT and OGR have done articles on the pros and cons of various track systems. The new Atlas track gets high grades. But for the money, Gargraves is a very good deal and is overall very reliable.
Actually, I think cars and locos themselves can be more the problem than track. I remove trucks on every car and replace the rivets with a lock nut and blackened screw, so that there is no "wobble" on the truck - which is a big cause of derailments especially when going in reverse. If I have one engine that derails on a switch when others don't, I look to the engine for the cause, not the switch. It's only if many things derail do I look at track as the culprit. I've had pilot trucks on steamers derail at switches: I add either a spring or lead weight (depending on the unit) and that solves the problem.
BUT it really does boil down to money: how much do you want to spend on track AND what kind of locos and cars will you run? Since I run NO scale-sized 18-inch long diesels, 027 track works fine. Tubular track has been around forever and has a proven point of reliability. And there are those who still swear by the older Lionel 022 O gauge turnouts over the newer ones (with good reason too!). BUT if you want to run scale pieces, you'll want to stick with a wider radius curve and switches to match, like Gargraves, Atlas or Curtis. Lionel and K-Line make some wide angle switches, but you get the big footprint base and switch box on those. Though K-Line recently re-engineered their wider angle turnouts with a smaller switchbox housing.

brianel, Agent 027