With all the talk recently of Williams, it got me to thinking. What if anything could be done to improve the already excellent line of trains? To me, the one thing that Williams could improve upon is their sound systems. I'm not advocating something similar to Railsounds (nice thought though), but if Williams or an aftermarket company would offer a drop in sound card with even just a horn/whistle, and bell that are not preprogrammed to give the same sound every time, I think it would be a vast improvement. It would have to be configured the same way the existing boards are so that one would only need to unplug the existing board and plug in the new one.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
This is a great topic.
I would really like to see "factory installed" TMCC options on their offerings. I would certainly have many more Williams products!
This is a very nice idea. I think that Williams should offer their products, in both ways. As they are now and then with sound systems. This way, they would keep the market open for all needs. They are currently offering their " Scale Hudson " with a chuff sound, which shows they are working towards that goal.
Chuck
luther_stanton wrote: This is a great topic.I would really like to see "factory installed" TMCC options on their offerings. I would certainly have many more Williams products!
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
My Williams 671 smokes like a bastar...uh like a house on fire!
TMCC went to a modular systems when they started the licensing process to third party vendors like Atlas, K-Line. The licensee has to agree to the terms of the license and build a backplane to plug the TMCC controller board(s) into. You would need to use a Lionel style modular E-Unit that the end user would have to replace when you put in a TMCC receiver and motor control boards. This would also complicate warranty issues as the boards would be Lionel while the rest of the loco is Williams. The Williams E-Unit is pretty durable and reliable.
Williams has prided itself on make durable/rugged/simple trains. They have tried to avoid complicated/finicky electronics that add costs and often headaches when something goes wrong.
While you can certainly upgrade a Williams unit to full blown TMCC/RS or even PS-2, by the time you are done you will have paid as much as a new Lionel/Atlas/Weaver/MTH loco with "all the bells and whistles".
If you want to add sounds under conventional control, order Williams with no sound board and install the Electric RR's Sound Commander2. You could use the TAS conventional RS board and get RailSounds quality but at a significant additional cost (you need a mini backplane to connect the RS components).
I'm not wishing for TMCC or even Railsounds. What I originally posted was, wouldn't it be great if Williams (or an aftermarket company) made a new sound board without a pre-recorded digital sound, so that the horn or whistle would blow as long as the button was pressed? To me, their sound is the only thing about their products that I don't think highly of. It would have to be a drop in replacement with no alterations to the existing electronics needed.
"If you want to add sounds under conventional control, order Williams with no sound board and install the Electric RR's Sound Commander2."
http://www.electricrr.com/SoundCommander.htm
I'm very happy with the sound of Williams.. Just horn or bell whenever I push the button.
For some reason I find the continuous noise of other companies very annoying. I don't like steam chuffs or diesel growls and Crewtalk makes me wanna grab a hammer and smash the thing
The Pennsy whistle sounds great. I'd put that in my 671. The small switcher whistle might be good in the Hogworts set. I wonder how hard these are to install...who can tell me what's involved? Is it difficult?
My only Williams engine is their traditional-size (027) GG1. What a wonderful beast! Just the other day, I was 'racing' it against some of my trolleys. I agree with you, Jim. It would be cool to sound the horn for as long as I'd like instead of just hearing the tinny two-longs-and-a-short.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
Very tinny, Doug! At $49 $55, I might be tempted to buy one of those sound commanders and attempt an install. And if it goes well and sounds good, I'll rip the horns and whistles out of all my post war pieces and install these sound boards in their places.
I have a GG-1 like Doug's and it is a great engine. I also have a Williams FM Trainmaster which I plan on installing a RR Electric Commander2 sound system in it. It is $49.95 and I like the sound of it. I will be running it in conventional mode.
Blueberryhill RR wrote:I have a GG-1 like Doug's and it is a great engine. I also have a Williams FM Trainmaster which I plan on installing a RR Electric Commander2 sound system in it. It is $49.95 and I like the sound of it. I will be running it in conventional mode.Chuck
I see they offer a GG1 sound card, Chuck.
I'm getting tempted to try one. The F3 card will sound pretty nice in my 2343s. The Alco card in my 2023s, and the Pennsy whistle card in my 671.
Still looking for anyone who's installed one of these systems to step up and tell what's involved.
jaabat wrote: Blueberryhill RR wrote: I have a GG-1 like Doug's and it is a great engine. I also have a Williams FM Trainmaster which I plan on installing a RR Electric Commander2 sound system in it. It is $49.95 and I like the sound of it. I will be running it in conventional mode.Chuck I see they offer a GG1 sound card, Chuck. I'm getting tempted to try one. The F3 card will sound pretty nice in my 2343s. The Alco card in my 2023s, and the Pennsy whistle card in my 671. Still looking for anyone who's installed one of these systems to step up and tell what's involved.
Blueberryhill RR wrote: I have a GG-1 like Doug's and it is a great engine. I also have a Williams FM Trainmaster which I plan on installing a RR Electric Commander2 sound system in it. It is $49.95 and I like the sound of it. I will be running it in conventional mode.Chuck
Jim.......As far as I know, the sound cards do not fit the PW engines because they do not have a digital whistle and e unit board.
Chuck, I'm looking into sound commanders. After reading the instructions, I don't think it needs to have an e unit board to hook into. The sound cards get mounted in the tenders with a magnet and pickup attached to a truck. Synchro chuffing is more involved, but that doesn't concern me. Wooo woooooooooooooooooooooo!
I had looked at this for some of my Lionel steamers. I ended up getting one of the "Sound of Steam" C&O boxcars. I also plan to get the Tender with sounds and I have the caboose with sounds. It would be hard to narrow down which individual engine I would put sound in, these other options let me cover all my bases.
dennis
TCA#09-63805
The web site says it's great for post war locos.
jaabat wrote: The web site says it's great for post war locos.Jim
Great. I stand corrected. I have a PW #671 that would sound great.
I have installed the original ERR sound commander in a Williams berk. No soldering was required, and it was pretty much a matter of removing the original Williams sound board in the tender, and installing the ERR board. It comes with a magnet and reed switch for the "chuffing". The magnet and reed switch are pretty much impossible to install on the Williams tender. You are supposed to attach the magnet to the wheel, but the wheels on Williams's tender are "hollowed out", so there is no place to put the magnet in a vertical position. There is also no place to glue the reed switch to under the trucks. The instructions recomend Walthers goo, but even that won't hold the reed switch in place. This isn't a problem on diesel engines though, as they don't chuff, and all the sound comes from voltage changes. On a postwar steamer, if the wheels are flush on the inside, it would probably work. You may have to drill a hole to allow the reed switch to pass through, though.
I'm not bashing ERR products at all!! It just didn't work very well for me on the Williams berk. I tried replacing the wheel set, and managed to break the truck trying to spread it enough to change them. JB weld has held so far! In conventional mode, though, the whistle and bell work very nicely. I would like to get a couple cruise commanders for some Williams diesels I own, but am a little leary of the steamer products.
I've installed several SC units. All run conventional mode. Diesels are the easiest (as stated above) because there's no chuff. I suggest trying one of these first before attempting steam. The diesels only require four wires. Two power wires (center rail and outer rails) and the two speaker wires. As long as the target loco already has a speaker (must be 8 ohm, which should be typical), then you just:
Install/remove jumpers (there are a couple jumpers to select volume and revs/chuff).
Connect the four wires.
Mount board to loco (it comes with double sided tape). Just be sure it won't come loose. You don't want any shorts.
Plug in the four wires.
Done. This is for diesel. This goes for steam too, if you don't want the chuff.
Installing the chuff is always a challenge and different for each loco I think. You get a tiny magnet about 1/8" diameter and a reed switch that's about 1/2" long. You have one more pair of wires than the above install, which come from the reed switch. I have made my own brackets to hold the reed switch (out of brass sheet) when required. You'll have to look at each loco and decide for yourself if you can do it. It's not as difficult as it may sound. Again, do a diesel first if possible so you know more about what to expect.
TIP1: If you get a bell instead of a whistle, swap the power wires to the board.
TIP2: The SC will work with the CW-80, only it can be eratic. Jon states plainly that it does not. I found the whistle works OK, but the bell and occationally some other effects sometimes trigger randomly. With the CW-80, you cannot stop the bell from ringing once it starts without powering down. Too much hassle. I switched to a 1033 and all is well.
Bobby
Thanks for the input and advice guys. It doesn't sound like too bad a project. The chuffing would be a major reason to buy the steamer version, along with the ability to control the whistle sound, so maybe I'll upgrade one of my diesels first. Or I could put the steamer version in my post war tender instead of my Williams tender.
Thanks again.
All,
Here is a pic of the RMT BEEP with the Sound Commander installed. As you can see it's pretty simple. Two wires from the track (truck pickups) go to the board for power. Two wires head out to the speaker. This install too 15 minutes. Just about any diesel should be similar as far as the install. One thing to note is that if your loco and / or track is noisey, you may not hear the revs too well. Since I use Atlas track that's not an issue.
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i119/BobbyDing/Beep1.jpg
The one thing that bugs me about Williams Trains is that they do not seem to have provided the painting and printing department with all the proper photographs and prototypical painting diagrams when creating paint masks for the Locomotives and Cabooses several years ago. Many of the markings are compressed, distorted, or misplaced. I know they are inexpensive, but the paint schemes on old products could be improved on subsequent production runs to match the quality of the more recent releases, right.
Andrew
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
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