Screw Sizes

[cheech]

How do you identify screw sizes?  Is there a template somewhere? Is there an assortment for lionel/mdk/mth that some supplier sells?

When a screw goes missing how can you id what its size is so that you can order a replacement?

I saw a vendor table at york, never got there and didn't take down the name. Does anybody know who it might be.

ralph

[panz]

I believe Peter Tebolt is one of the vendors, there are a number of them and I suggest you check through the ads in classic toy trains.  I think there is one called east coast trains that carries small parts such as screws.  Check out some repair books to see what part numbers are required and perhaps the lionel web site might have some blow ups but I don't know for sure.  I usually pick up an assortment when at York just in case. 

[lionelsoni]

American numbered screw sizes are based on the #5 screw, which has a major diameter of exactly .125 (1/8) inch.  The other sizes step up and down from there by increments of .013 inch.  Lionel used some unusual sizes, like 4-36 and 3-48.

[phillyreading]

Most screws can be bought at one of three places; Ace Hardware, Lowes and Home Depot(if the depot still carries small screw sizes).

I use either a number 4 or 6 for most stuff, three quarters of an inch long or one& a quarter inch long.

Lee F.

[Dave Connolly]

 Micromark carries what you need.  http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=60361

 As mentioned your local hardware may stock something that will work but it may not be exact. I've had great service from www.microfasteners.com  You buy in larger quanities but they are priced very reasonable.

[cheech]

Dave

Purrr..fect...oH

thanks a lot. now if can get the samplet set with phillips heads i'll be set.

the screw size finder is great if you have the screw....what i have is the 'hole'. the screw size template, in most cases won't fit over the hole... i'll keep searching or invent something and sell it on ebay.....

 

thanks again dave, i already placed the order...looks like i'll be visiting this site often.

 

ralph

[ezmike]

cheech,

 I usually call one of the parts guys like Jeff Kane at the Train Tender (www.ttender.com) and tell him what screw I lost to what item and then I buy at least 25 of them because if I lost it once I'll lose it again. Also, I find that Greenbergs Manual usually lists the screw size and part number as well in the illustrations. With that information you can usually go to any of the online parts guys and look them up. Hope this helps.

Mike

[Brutus]

To figure out the size of the screw:

Go to Michaels or another arts and crafts place (maybe Walmart has it) and get one of those soft putty type art erasers for use with charcoal drawings etc.  Play with it a while so that it is softened a bit, then let it rest a short while so that all the stretch goes out of it.  Then roll into a sort of pointed hotdog shape and screw the pointy end into the hole a little, then unscrew it and measure quickly.  Don't push it very far in the hole - just enough.  Sorry, can't tell you how to tell.  You'll know if you do it wrong and a piece stays in the hole!!!  If some sticks inside, use a little wire to get it out.  Note whether the "screw hole" shape is all about the same width (a bolt) or tapering (a screw).  If it's close to 2 sizes, do it a couple times to get an average or buy both size screws and try them.

These rubber erasers don't have any weird oil or anything in them and you can reuse them over and over until they are used up.

[Jumijo]

Those are called kneaded erasers, Jim.

Call a vendor, tell them what the screw is from, and chances are, they will be able to look it up for you.

What train item are you missing a screw from, anyway? Is it post war, modern, prewar?

Jim

[cheech]

All good suggestions.

the current missing screw is for K-line Trailer....Tofcee SoPac Pig Service trailer..the screw that holds the rear wheels in place is out...just the hole....i'll try the putty-eraser.....

I have asked three of the parts vendors i normally use and they are searching, obviiously good guys with whom i do business frequently....but looking for a 20Cent screw isn't going to take high priority, and i understand that....

that said, i ordered the 'inch' sampler...the metric, i'll probably have to build myself over time.

when i get them sorted, labeled, and boxed, i'll probably drop the box....

good leads, thanks guys

ralph

[Brutus]

Right Jim, he KNEADS and eraser! 

If you have absolutely no luck, you could try tapping the hole a little bigger.  You can get a tap at Home Depot for a few bucks and move up to a slightly bigger screw with a known size and threading etc.  Let us know how it turns out!

[lionelsoni]

From Machinery's Handbook:

"A bolt is an externally threaded fastener designed for insertion through holes in assembled parts, and is normally intended to be tightened or released by torquing a nut.

"A screw is an externally threaded fastener capable of being inserted into holes in assembled parts, of mating with a preformed internal thread or forming its own thread and of being tightened or released by torquing the head."

Wood screws, pipe threads, and some sheet-metal screws are tapered; but machine screws are not.

[Brutus]

Interesting, Bob.  I recently put a motor in a 4-4-2 with Lionel screws that were slightly tapered, so I guess they were technically sheet metal screws?  They were apparently self-tapping, too.  I've driven about 10,000 sheet metal screws in the basement, as I framed the walls with steel, and they are definitely tapered, but they don't have a smooth section between the thread and the head like wood screws - another difference.

[lionelsoni]

Lionel used a number of self-tapping screws, which are generally designated by "S.T.R.H.'Z'" or "S.T.F.H.'Z'" on the drawings.  The first letters stand for "self-tapping round-head" and "self-tapping flat-head"; but I'm not sure about the "'Z'".  I have seen some hints on the Internet that suggest that "Z screw" may be an obsolete or obscure name for a sheet-metal or self-tapping screw; but even I am not old enough to remember ever hearing it used.  Does anyone else have a clue?

[bfskinner]

Bob (lionelsoni)

The table at this link is suggestive that Lionel used the "z" suffix to designate "pan head," but I don't think so. In your example and others I have seen (for example, F.H. "z") which would seem to mean Flat Head "z" where the z wouldn't seem to designate head type. And why the quotation marks around the z?

     http://www.towncountryhobbies.com/screws.htm

Another possibility is that the "z" indicated zinc-plated. My search of the internet and my "library" of Lionel service materials show a lot of references to Type Z but no cheat-sheets for the code.

It is a puzzlement, certainly, but one ought to be able to repair most Lionel trains without knowing the answer.