EIS2 wrote: RaleighTrainFan wrote: Well, since the last time I posted on this mine has been at Todd's Trains awaiting a new speaker from Lionel. Has your loco been repaired and was the problem corrected?Earl
RaleighTrainFan wrote: Well, since the last time I posted on this mine has been at Todd's Trains awaiting a new speaker from Lionel.
Well, since the last time I posted on this mine has been at Todd's Trains awaiting a new speaker from Lionel.
Earl
Have not heard anything. I am going to call out there today.
I just want you "O gaugers" to take heart. Lionel's problems with chuff noises isn't limited to O gauge. I'm a S gauge Flyer guy and purchased a new Flyonel grey UP Northern last Christmas. It's a beautiful engine. It is supposed to have BOTH the electronic Trainsounds chuff and the old mechanical AF chuff. The electronic sounds are great. The mechanical chuff - the same unit that A.C. Gilbert perfected over 50 years ago - sounds like a mouse with emphysema. Kind of a squeaky wheeze. There were several complaints, including mine, sent to Lionel. They came up with a "fix". In order to silence the wheezy squeak, they decided the fix would be to put a longer gasket on the intake of the smoke unit, completely covering and effectively silencing the entire unit. I guess that's one way to fix a squeak, just eliminate the unit!!! I think they would recommend taking the mechancial unit clear out if they could get way with having no smoke too.
I think the most infuriating part of this is that if any quality control technician, any engineer, heck ANYONE, would have run one of these locos on a test track for a few laps it would have been obvious that the sound wasn't right. Surely, Lionel can do better than this!
Jim E.
OK, guys. The verdict is in, and it ain't pretty.
The guys at Todd's have worked like crazy trying to fix this, and I mean, they have exhausted all kinds of possibilities. Unfortunately their fine efforts have come to naught, as they have concluded that this is a design flaw.
So, the options are:
1. Keep it, and deal with the sound.
2. Keep it, and send it to Trains America (?) for TMCC conversion. Does anyone know how much this would cost? I heard as much as $200.
3. Return it for $$$ or a store credit (I would obviously pick the latter) to buy an engine that works properly, and they will ship the 0-8-0 back to Lionel.
Again, I am saddened that these guys have worked very hard but cannot fix what is apparently a design flaw on Lionel's part. I would appreciate all advice of what to do. I am thinking of the conversion but would appreciate details of this to see if it's worth $$$, time, and trouble.
Best to call TA Studios for a quote. My guess would be closer to 300. Most conversions from conventional to TMCC everything would be placed inside the tender. Your engine would probably need one of the new Drop In EOB boards that would go in the engine seeing the tender is so small and they are designed to work with the newer engines with a wireless tether. These boards are used to upgrade existing TMCC engines to EOB. They will not only give you cruise but also a selectable chuff rate. 1,2 or 4 that can be selected with simple programming from Cab 1. This is done by using the added timing tape and tach reader to trigger the chuffs rather than the cam opperatted switches. If the conventional model has insulated handrails to provide an antenna it may not be a hard conversion. You will also need to buy the complete Railsounds package and if your going that far 2 coil opperated couplers. Like I said it's best to call them as they may be more familar as to whats needed.
Does your local shop have or access to a TMCC version that you could test drive the tender behind your engine ? Looking at the above pictures the wireless tether seems the same as the command version. I'm real curious if you simply added the Railsounds package in the TMCC version if it would solve your sound problem without going the command route.
I'm guessing the Southern road name was what you were after. I remember my once local shop had the TMCC one and it was a real looker. They probably turn up on the secondary market but not that often. I've been keeping my eye out for a B&A to renumber with not much luck. These engines run so well and everyone seems to need a small switcher they don't turn up to often as the original owners fall in love with their performance.
You could buy a TMCC version in any roadname and swap shells providing yours has the mentioned insulated handrails. Sell of the reassembled engine off. Probably at a huge loss. Still probably not a 2 minute conversion. Not sure what TA would charge but you would probably spend more than list of a TMCC version but you would get the roadname you want and the programmable chuff may be something you'd want if the engine is going to be run as anything other than a yard switcher.
A store credit shows that the store you dealt with is top notch. That option would work well if theres something desireable you could trade for. If you are happy running conventional only. MTH did the Southern 0-8-0 in the Premier line. The Proto 2's run very well in conventional mode plus have working coil couplers that can be activated with a transformer that has whistle and bell buttons. A little less money than a possible conversion but the Southern roadname in a nice running engine.
It's a shame Lionel didn't offer more support. I find you really have to read the catalog now to know what your buying. Older issue Shays without speed control. Trainsounds, Railsounds, some have TMCC 2 and some don't. All to confusing. I love TMCC but MTH has a much better approach. DCS package in every engine whether it be Railking or Premier. You may not care for the sound package but at least you know what your getting.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Thanks for all the good advice. I am indeed fortunate to be working with a top-notch organization like Todd's.
If I keep the engine, which I am leaning toward doing because it's really cool despite the sound problems, I am going to look at getting the Railsounds upgrade only.
Got to note that my faith in Lionel quality has taken a hit with this one, though.
Guys after rereading all the posts. Having never heard the engine I'm not sure if the quality of the sounds itself is the issue or the rapid chuffing at 4 per wheel revolution. 4 chuffs is correct for a prototype steamer. I run mine with 4 programmed in with either EOB or DCS. But many prefer the sound of 2 as it doesn't chuff at a rapid rate. This shows up even more with small drivers such as on the 0-8-0. All Lionel large drivered steamers always came with 2. Why they picked out the 0-8-0 to have 4 I never quite figured out.
If going the command route. Definately go with the EOB setup. This will give you a choice of 1,2 or 4 chuffs. Easily changed with the Cab 1 remote.
If the sounds are OK and you enjoy conventional opperation and it's just the rapid chuffing that makes it sound terrible. If you know a good repair guy. I can't comment as I've had the shell off of mine but didn't check out the chuffs trigger mechanism. Chances are it's a cam of some sort that activates the switch. If it's easily removable. Grinding off 2 alternate lobes of the cam should now give you 2. Not much to lose as no new parts are required.
Dave,Thanks for the tip... I will have to look into that when I get some time...
Hey Raleigh,
If you don't want it anymore, you could just send it to me. Hint Hint. I just kidding.
I understand completely about Lionels shipping problems, insisting that things are not their fault and we are all stupid (they don't say that, but the probably think it). I ordered the Volume 1 catalog when it came out, and I have yet to get it from them. I went in April to buy it at the LHS, but thats besides the point.
Lionel definatly needs to work on their customer service.
Cheese
Nick! :)
Cheese wrote: Hey Raleigh,If you don't want it anymore, you could just send it to me. Hint Hint. I just kidding.I understand completely about Lionels shipping problems, insisting that things are not their fault and we are all stupid (they don't say that, but the probably think it). I ordered the Volume 1 catalog when it came out, and I have yet to get it from them. I went in April to buy it at the LHS, but thats besides the point.Lionel definatly needs to work on their customer service.Cheese
After some thought, I decided to keep it. Just too attached to it not to. It's a great engine except for the chuff problem. I'm mulling the idea of converting it RS and TMCC.
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