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WHY do so many people HATE the Lionel CW-80 transformer?

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Posted by dwiemer on Monday, April 30, 2007 8:50 AM

I too have high regard for Allan and Bob.  That being said, I also like the CW80 within it's limitations.  It is a starter set transformer and I use mine for operating a Christmas layout around the tree.  I have a few and I plan to use one for running a trolley line on a large layout, where the trolley line will be a small, separate loop.  I did have one problem with an early "Hobo Set" CW80, I belive the date was in 94? not sure.  Anyway, I called Lionel, gave them the serial number and had a new one on my doorstep two days later....no questions asked.  The problem was as stated by another poster, ran the train for a good while, then one day, it just quit.  Light and fan run, but no power to track.

As for the tempers of the folks on this forum, the vast majority are very nice, well informed, and like to poke a little fun with each other.  Some do like to start trouble, but they are very few and I have found that if you ignor them, they usually get the point and don't show up too often.

Welcome to the forum and please return often.

Dennis

TCA#09-63805

 

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Posted by RS3hostler on Monday, April 30, 2007 10:39 AM

I haven't had much personal experience with the CW-80, but the toy train club I belong to has gone through several models. Chief issues are the balky direction control button and lack of compatibility with non Lionel products. I personally have an issue with the ergonomic design of the buttons--they are too small, too hard to see, and a bit hard to operate.

It DOES have some positive features. It's compact--important where space is at a premium. The throttle gives you a full votage range of 0-18 volts, which allows for smooth startups, and the throttle index does give an approximate voltage setting. I especially like the voltage ramp up feature on the reverse button. Unfortunately, this benefit is negated by its lack of reliability. The "foldback" setting has the potential to be a plus feature, but I'm guessing this may be the source of many of the CW-80's teething problems.

I've been looking at catalog specs, and the MTH Z-1000 appears to be a better buy. It costs less, gives more power [100 vs 80 watts], and has a well laid out control panel with color-coded buttons. The lack of a volt meter might be an issue, but that is easily solved with an add-on meter. I'm assuming here that the Z-1000 has the same standard sine wave output as other transformers in this series.

Since Challenger 3980 has had experience with both models, I'd be curious to see how the Z-1000 rates against the CW-80 in terms of performance and reliability.

Henry

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Posted by challenger3980 on Monday, April 30, 2007 11:15 AM

 Hi Henry (RS 3 Hostler),

     I have only been in 0 3 rail for about 1 1/2 years now, so I can't really give you a long term reliability review on any of the transformers. I do prefer the CW-80 to the MTH Z-Series transformers though.

     My biggest issue with the MTH transformers is the high minimum voltage ( YES I KNOW many Lionel transformers have the same issue). Another thing that I prefer about the CW, is I don't care for the external power bricks (AGAIN, YES I KNOW that the "NEW ZW" uses them too, as well as the BW-80) and one more issue I have is that to me the Z-Series transformers do look like something from a cheap HO starter set. But in all fairness, I can't say that the MTH's have given me any trouble, but then I don't give them much use, unless running a Proto-2 locomotive.

       I do prefer the looks of the CWs, they do have the 50s look that looks right for 0-gauge trains, purely aesthetic true, but then so is scenery. The 0-18v throttle has already been mentioned, and like you, I appreciate the numerically indexed throttle, it makes passing trains from one transformer to another unnoticeable.

                                         Well I gotta go, almost late for work,

                                        Smile, Trains are Supposed to be Fun,

                                                                   Doug.

May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails

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Posted by Jumijo on Monday, April 30, 2007 11:25 AM

2 out of 4 have crapped out on me. Has anyone seen the new transformer that's going to be included in all 2008 starter sets? It's a great looking rig. Very post war looking design, but from what I understand, only 30-40 watts. Still, I'd rather have that than a dead cw-80!

Jim 

Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale

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Posted by jefelectric on Monday, April 30, 2007 1:18 PM

Now that's interesting, I just did a search on CW-80 and got zero responses, not even this thread.  Changed it to CW80 and got 438 responses.

Anyway there has definately been a lot of discussion.  Don't own one so can't contribute anything else.

John Fullerton Home of the BUBB&A  http://www.jeanandjohn.net/trains.html
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Posted by Dr. John on Monday, April 30, 2007 1:38 PM
I have had no problems with my CW80, purchased in November of 2005 (Copper Canyon set). I have run Lionel postwar, Williams, Railking w/ locosounds and Marx with no problems. I have not used it with Railsounds or PS2 equipped locos, so I can't comment on that.
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Posted by Buckeye Riveter on Monday, April 30, 2007 9:23 PM

I'm so glad that I don't own one, so I never have had to find out if it had a problem.  My 180 watt bricks are working fine.

My daughter's PE has a CW80 and so far so good. Thumbs Up [tup]

Celebrating 18 years on the CTT Forum. Smile, Wink & Grin

Buckeye Riveter......... OTTS Charter Member, a Roseyville Raider and a member of the CTT Forum since 2004..

Jelloway Creek, OH - ELV 1,100 - Home of the Baltimore, Ohio & Wabash RR

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Posted by Boyd on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 1:04 AM

Well I called Lionel on the CW-80 and told them it stopped working 1 year ago. I knew I had bought it in December but was unsure if it was of 2005 or 2004. I think it was 2005,, on closeout at Menards. Well NO HELP FROM LIONEL! I liked it until it stopped working. Peee on Lionel. I'll try to find the reciept when I go through paperwork this summer.

Is there any fix to this transformer? The lady I talked to said that dealers can't service these transformers.

Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 6:48 AM
Boyd,
They can be had on EBay for under $50.00.

I don't have access to either of mine as they are packed away for the move, but I would be willing to sell one...
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Posted by bfskinner on Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:29 PM

challenger3980,

Summary of major "hateful" properties of the CW-80:

1. Very poor early quality control, resulting in many being dead right out of the box; or early in-use failures. Some of this may have been due to an internal fuse (virtually non-replaceable)  that blew too easily, and/or operator error. 

2. Will not work on 50 Hz current -- a real problem for those in Great Britain and Europe. Evidently the catalog and other advertising media failed to warn about this, although the Owner's Manual and some of the packaging did.

3. Long-uncorrected reversal of scheme for hooking-up to the track. For those who never used the Accessory posts, or only used them on accessories that were isolated from the outer-rail of the track, this was never a problem. For those situations where the outer-rail was used as a "common ground" (such as using use the Accessory posts to provide a constant-voltage feed to O22 or FasTrack turnouts, it was a major annoyance. It could easily be resolved by reversing the leads from the transformer to the track, but this also reversed the functions of the whistle/horn and bell buttons. See lionelsoni's post of 4/28, above.

4. Would not run locos of certain other manufacturers, especially of MTH.

5. Only 80 watts (5 amps) maximum output; can not be overdriven. The "fold-back circuit limits the output to safe levels; still, some folks say they would prefer a circuit-breaker.

6. No repair service available either at Lionel or its authorized dealers. Replacements were/are available within 1-year warrantly period, but warranty provisions are strict. At end of warranty period, owner is pretty much on his own. (The warranty, bad as it was, is not transferable from one owner to another. This seems to be Lionel corporate policy and is not confined to the CW-80.) Folks who bought theirs on eBay or the like generally found themselves automatically out of warranty, no matter how recently the item was manufactured.

7. Some folks didn't like the muffin fan or the ramp-up throttle when the direction button was used.

8. Lionel would generally not acknowledge that the Cw-80 had problems, and was very slow to correct them. By the same token, many operators did not read the Owner's Manual which  could have saved them a good deal of grief. Unfortunately, this was made even more problematic by unclear, inconsistent, incomplete and plain wrong instructions in the manual. The worst ones involve basic hook-up instructions and the "programmable fixed-voltage taps."

9. In certain situations locomotives would not reverse correctly unless a small load, such as a lamp or two, was connected to track power.

No one knows how many problems there actually were. Some forumites posted their particular problem over and over again. Also many posters added repeatedly to the din even though they had no personal experience with the device. The same complaint posted five times is not the same as five complaints.

In my opinion, the most revealing post about the CW-80 was written by "donhradio" on the other major forum. As of this date, it is still there, as is the one by TedB immediately following. Do an advanced search. Fill in the blocks for key word CW-80 and author donhradio. That's all you need. The post is dated Jan 01, 2007. It, and the one following, say a mouthful. Sorry, I can't seem to post a "clickable link."

Many of the above deficiencies have been corrected by "ongoing product improvement" and the major revision in the CW-80 in 2006. Most people seem happy with the new ones, although the 50 Hz and the "MTH" problems still exist, I believe.

bf
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 11, 2007 3:16 AM
A very thorough summary by BF!

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